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Thread: Nishikigoi Pedigrees

  1. #1
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
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    Talking Nishikigoi Pedigrees

    I bet you all know that I just about soiled myself when I found this--beginning pedigrees for Sakai koi bloodlines.

    Check them out--a great start to showing the bloodline development of this breeder's koi:

    Donguri bloodline http://www.sakai-ff.com/blood-line1.htm

    Sakura bloodline http://www.sakai-ff.com/blood-line2.htm

    There is also a page with this year's breeding pairs:

    http://www.sakai-ff.com/parentskoi/index.htm

    I'm so stoked! They're not exactly like mammal pedigrees (though they do name the fish!), but a great attempt to show the progression of the lines. Oh, I hope this catches on with other breeders.... *big smile*

    Marie
    Marie

    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

    "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
    paints his own nature into his pictures."
    --Henry Ward Beecher

  2. #2
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    Well, Yes & No. Koi do not breed in a true bloodline manner as do dogs or whatever. More often than not the most sucessful parent koi are not that beautiful themselves and maybe never were. Many GC koi have been bought and then bred with poor results. On the other hand great marketing gimmick to sell baby koi based on famous parents.

    I can give lots of examples of famous GC koi that never produced GC offspring (to my knowledge).

    Dianichi Inazuma Showa
    Diamond Mask Kohaku
    Crown Sanke
    etc., etc., etc.

  3. #3
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Pedigree?

    More like a sales brochure, methinks.

  4. #4
    Honmei
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    Bloodlines?

    Bloodlines are meaningless when you are buying Koi. Knowledge about Koi will help you pick quality, no matter the breeder. What you see, is what you get! If you don't see it, you won't get it.

  5. #5
    Jumbo dcny's Avatar
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    Marie,

    The closest thing you will find to what you're looking for is in KB issue #5, page 41. It traces 5 generations of Momotaro koi from their early Matsunosuke Sanke to a kokugyo winner in 2003, highlighting some notable parents and show winners along the way.

    -Dan

  6. #6
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Well, to a newbie learning selection first then bloodline is the easiest way...dont get confused with bloodline if you havent mastered selection.

  7. #7
    Honmei
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    Deja Vu

    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori
    Well, to a newbie learning selection first then bloodline is the easiest way...dont get confused with bloodline if you havent mastered selection.
    That's what I said. LOL

  8. #8
    Honmei
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    Boldlines do in fact matter

    I won't argue the selection over bloodlines, its true. BUT different bloodlines will yield differing charachterisics to select from. I think the more appropriate verbaige is that although bloodlines matter, they are no guarentee of quality and definitely do not replace selection techniques (a good eye). Remember, there are good Koi from many bloodlines. Breeder's selection (their culling and developement eye) matters but even then, each breeder has good and bad Koi...many more bad than good and its ultimately up to each purchaser to improve their own selection techniques (eyes) in order to make an educated choice.

    Steve

  9. #9
    Oyagoi
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    each real bloodline has different development charecteristics. So if you are buying tosai knowing how that bloodline and its shiro, size and conformation, sumi, and beni/hi develop is important. That is one reason so many great looking tosai do not turn out and some of the lame ducks do. Knowing the bloodline itself will help you determine that. Maurice has articles on his site about that issue. http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/koiman/kohaku_hi_quality.htm

    http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/koiman/Kagezumi.htm

    http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/koiman/naokitosai.htm
    very good for beginners to read thru and think about. That is why it is important to have a breeder's input about which koi truly have future potential, they hsould know how thier bloodline develops. I f they dont it is a sign someone else, like a parent or sibling developed the line and they have newly taken over, or just want to sell it. It will take some years for their eye to develop to know what they are looking at. A wrong guess also keeps them out of hot water with the buyer......and even with an experienced breeder's picks, there is a certain amount of cahnce and risk involved.

    In tosai I do not really agree that you get what you see. In older koi, that is true. Maurice's site has a bunch or articles on subjects like this that make very good reading and education for buers who want to really learn about the subject. One great way to learn is to study the line, talk to folks who know how it tends to develop in terms of growth, beni, etc, then AFTER you have learned about that line in particular, do some tosai growouts.
    maurice's site also has some articles about the different types of beni and how they develop and how to know if they are degrading or about to.
    'Sometimes it take a talking donkey to turn things around in the right direction, ask Balaam."

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