Beni types and colors and breeders discussion

[junglegeorge12]

Here are some pics of different beni types. Two are from one breeder, two from another, one from another. Most of the old timers will be able to name them right away, so guess away and I will post the breeder's names in 24 hours. Say which ones you think are from the same breeder/s.

I did this so we can get a vague idea of how types and beni have developed and how the breeders work each line and type. I am just wondering what similarities and differences people notice, like and dislike about the five different koi here and their beni. What would be your favorite?

If you were a breeder which one would be something to build from, and which one would be a line about to weaken? Which one would you pick to win a show if the show were based solely on beni color and quality, not pattern, shiro, or size as these are obviously different ages and sizes? Which ones would you say has or does not have jumbo dna in the line?

How far apart would you guess those different colors and koi are breeding and bloodline wise?

This is not a test of rights and wrongs, just an exercise to spark sharing and thoughts and knowledge from everyone. After the exercise I will share what I like about them and dislike, and which ones I would aim for as my personal goals of favorites vs. what many in the show industry state they consider to be top quality.

[johnsmith]

George, I see what you're driving at but you first must distinquish between sex and colors before trying to expose beni type and kiwa. There is a 'first' lesson here about male beni at age one. JR

[saratogatan]

the first 4 are very young koi, the 3rd and 4th are tosai female (see the tag on the 3rd?). the 3rd is from Sakai hiroshima, the 4th maruyama. I don't know if the maruyam is tatekoi or tteshita, or basura, but it's beni is no where close to the kagura beni on good female maruyam of the same age.

stan

[johnsmith]

There is NO way that the third fish is a female! Unless the picture is altered- that is 100% male beni.Some one speaks with forked tongue! The yellow nose is either all male hormone or excess color food, in which case the beni is ruined.
JR

[dinh]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnsmith There is NO way that the third fish is a female! Unless the picture is altered- that is 100% male beni.Some one speaks with forked tongue! The yellow nose is either all male hormone or excess color food, in which case the beni is ruined. JR

The third is "Guaranteed Female" by Sakai of Hiroshima....;-))

[johnsmith]

I know! It was pointed out to me! I had an opportunity to buy a guaranteed female from said breeder- ask Mat McCann what happened! JR

[saratogatan]

there is a bunch of nice kohaku in the 'show tank' of sentul koi park. I am copying 2 of the kohaku pictures here. THat is what I call beni.

stan

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by dinh The third is "Guaranteed Female" by Sakai of Hiroshima....;-))

Sakai Hiroshima guarantees their "Jumbo Tosai" as female, but if they are left in the mudpond to growout and they change sex for some reason, then they are not liable...

[johnsmith]

Yea I know. Mine was first a $7000 female tategoi, then a $3000 'deal' fish and finally free! JR

[junglegeorge12]

Quote: Originally Posted by saratogatan there is a bunch of nice kohaku in the 'show tank' of sentul koi park. I am copying 2 of the kohaku pictures here. THat is what I call beni. stan

Those appear to be nice koi stan, the pics don't have enough resolution (maybe it's my puter) to really see the beni or kiwa in any detail, although the color and pattern, if accurately depicted, appear very nice to me.

I have never heard of that dealer, do they have a site?

JR your points are valid, but I also think color and beni discussion can be done without knowing male female etc, I would enjoy hearing you say more about the male female differences and issues.

Dinh and aquitori are sharp as usual.