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Thread: Who Was the First to Breed Ochiba Shigure?

  1. #21
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Northern California
    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldKoi View Post
    I have been fiddling with breeding ochiba for some time, and have since given up in favour of trying showa. However I have bred a few nice ones, but from thousands of babies, only a few retained the colour, many got very dark and had to go.

    I used a number of options over the years. Ochiba to ochiba is apparently not the way forward. I bred fron ginrin suragoi female to a male ochiba with some success, see one pic attached. this chap had the most beautiful copper coloured ginrin head, and great gin on the silver body. Sadly this one died in the growing on pond due to an algal bloom which sucked up all the oxygen and night, leaving me with about 10% deaths, and of course this chap was in with the losses.

    Fur increased red in the colour, suragoi to kohaku. Graet for strong colour, but I am of the opinion that although the very reddish / copper ochiba are striking, a true light greenish / ochre fish , like the autumn leaves they represent, is still tops. Sadly they are hard to breed out of suragoi, and the slightest dark patches on the light colours will spoil the fish. They also seem sensitive to temperature over time, and also darken under certain water conditions, and can be ruined between one owner and the next.
    Hence the value of a good ochiba specimen!
    I am such a sucker for ginrin. *LOL* Nice looking little guy.

    But I am captivated by the vision of "Autumn Leaves on Water," and the indigo netting over blue skin and either gold, brown or green/bronze plates are the ultimate Ochiba Shigure to me.

    Your experience with breeding Ochiba confirms pretty much what I figured would have to happen--start from the basics and weave the genes from scratch (or almost scratch). The ochibas do not seem to have strong enough genes yet to breed true to each other--still too much unseen stuff in there. There's going to have to be a lot of stringent linebreeding and inbreeding to unravel the right genes and start the right weave.

    The kohaku cross makes a more vibrant colored plate that takes a bit away from the quiet elegance of the ideal, but how else to instill the strong genes of an indelible color plate with the least possibility of fading? Kohaku has the strongest refinement of genes out of all koi. So if we want a strong marking that stands the least chance of fading, it would seem that this would be the foundation.

    Solidify the foundation (i.e. conformation, pattern and color depth), then carefully move to color adjustment.

    I know I simplify things in print to the point that they sound simple, but each step is really difficult to get the genes woven the way that one would want them and many breedings will be required, along with the most keen and educated eyes at culling and keeping time. Crossing genes to put things in and then working to take undesireable things out while trying to solidify what you want to retain can be a real art!

    Keep on it, and I'm going to be joining you soon on the journey into Autumn...



    "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
    paints his own nature into his pictures."
    --Henry Ward Beecher

  2. #22
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Northern California


    Still haven't found out who the breeder was that produced the first ochiba...amazingly there isn't a whole lot to be found on the net. Closest I found to Mike's info was from a German site that had to be translated. Virtual translations are really strange....


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