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Thread: Unscrupulous products

  1. #1
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    Unscrupulous products

    I was just sent a link to a Dutch dealer in Ijmuiden selling this worthless product. It is a shameless effort to cash in on the fear of KHV. Either this dealer in ill informed of has has little morals about selling snake oil.
    I have taken the liberty of doing a rough translation.

    Miracle Animal
    KHV prevention through Lacto-bacteria proved
    Helps prevent KHV, Hole disease and Finrot.

    Use:Feed Suplement... 3 ml per 100 grams of feed.




    What is lactic acid bacteria plant extract?

    In infection tests it has been shown that a lactic acid bacteria can work preventively against KHV and the chances of survivalare increased.

    This has been discovered by professor Hoshino linked to the university of Tsukuba of the department Ibaragi in Japan.

    Professor Takayuki Hoshino (factorial microbiology) has proved that a lactic acid bacterium are an effective development/protection against KHV.

    Although KHV has been the cause of a high mortality figures at carp in breeders throughout the world (in this case Japan) in rivers, including the river Kasumigaura, no more effective manner have been found to compare the positive effect of the lactic acid bacteria then in a practical field test.

    Professor Hoshino started by examining the lactic acid bacteria, originating from the digestive tracts of the carp, and he selected eight of ten different strains which showed an anti-microbial activity that indicated a propalactic activity towards fish illness. These lactic acid bacterium were mixed into feed and to administered to carp. It was shown that three strains stimulated the growth in carp and the also boosted immune system.

    During the infection test with KHV, the carp were fed with a fodder which was mixed with these three bacteria.

    Six to ten carp were divided into two ponds. In the one pond the carp were fed with prepared fodder and in the other tank with standard fodder. Then KHV, symptomatic carp were placed in the pond for five days (the incubation time). After 45 days all carps who were fed with standard fodder, were dead. On the other hand all carp fed with prepared fodder, remained alive.

    Even after these carp were injected in the abdomen with a KHV contaminated preparation, the carps which were fed the prepared fodder survived.

    The surviving carp after being fed with prepared fodder for an additional twenty days, were all KHV negative with a PCR test.

    Professor Hoshino then started a joint research on carp with the Ibaraki Prefecture Freshwater Fisheries Experimental Station as of September under the name of "the affirmation of the propolactic effect against KHV at an experimental level".

    Ok, nice sales pitch but so what does this all boil down to? If these results are genuine then it shows that fish exposed to KHV remained a-symtomatic when fed this food.

    Does it mean thay were not infected? No.

    Does it mean the will not develop KHV at a later stage? No.

    But they had a PCR test!
    A negitive PCR test only days that they didn't find any KHV, not that it isn't there. These fish, having been injected with KHV would test positive for KHV antibodies if tested with an ELISA test.

    Folks our Buddy Mike Snaden has 2 QT ponds full of a-symtomatic KHV infected koi. Hands up everyone who wants one in there pond?

    B.Scott
    Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

  2. #2
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Thumbs down It was inevitable

    You just had to see it coming . With the rapid succession of outbreaks popping up all over the place someone was bound to jump on it for a quick buck . The most pathetic part is that a lot of people will probably jump all over it and bypass QT in the process . It will add up to a lot of dead Koi and nowhere to turn for a refund on the snake oil.

  3. #3
    Sansai Tamianth's Avatar
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    Thanks, but no thanks!

    Scott, this is not the only crock o' steer manure I've seen lately regarding "Miracle Cure" tonics for KHV....

    Have you seen this one? This is the same two folks BTW. The web site designer (Brian Aukes) claims to be a Pathologist who has consulted with zoo's, teach's Vet's and yadda yadda, the list goe's on, while the brother or ?? whatever he is, is a pharmacist. Real chest thumper this one is! They even have a article on how they cured KHV with it......

    http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/koi_pond.html
    http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/?OV...OVMTC=advanced
    ~Kathy

  4. #4
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    As far as this product is concerned... I have written to the dealer. I assume he has been taken in as well i.e. sold a pallet full of snake oil. I feel sorry for him cuz he is screwed. If it fights finrot and hole disease (which it may or may not) then it may have some use. I am not optimistic however. What it will not do is fight KHV. Thats a fact and he shold be aware of this.

    B.Scott

  5. #5
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    thought you might want to read what a google search turned up on the term snake oil salesman....enjoy ( thanks Scott)

    United States

    Snake oil originally came from China, where it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as pain reliever in China: higher in inflammation-reducing eicosapentaenic acid (EPA) than any other known source, snake oil was an excellent and safe remedy for joint pain. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.
    Chinese labourers on railroad gangs involved in building the Transcontinental Railroad to link North America coast to coast gave it to Europeans with joint pain. When rubbed on the skin above the pain, snake oil brought relief, or so it was claimed. This claim was ridiculed by other rival medicine salesmen, especially those selling patent medicines.
    In time, snake oil became a generic name for the many medicines that were marketed as a panacea or miraculous remedy, whose ingredients were usually secret, unidentified, or mis-characterized, and mostly inert or ineffective. At best the placebo effect might provide some relief for whatever the problem might have been. Patented snail oil remedies actually originated in England, granted to Richard Stoughton's Elixir in 1712. [1] Since EPA was unknown in the 19th century, and various medicine salesmen or manufacturers seldom had enough skills in analytical chemisty to analyze the contents and really find out what made snake oil the "miracle" medicine it was claimed to be, snake oil became the archetype of hoax. Likewise, American snake fats do not have as high EPA contents as the Chinese water snake fat does, and the A
    United States

    Snake oil originally came from China, where it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as pain reliever in China: higher in inflammation-reducing eicosapentaenic acid (EPA) than any other known source, snake oil was an excellent and safe remedy for joint pain. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.
    Chinese labourers on railroad gangs involved in building the Transcontinental Railroad to link North America coast to coast gave it to Europeans with joint pain. When rubbed on the skin above the pain, snake oil brought relief, or so it was claimed. This claim was ridiculed by other rival medicine salesmen, especially those selling patent medicines.
    In time, snake oil became a generic name for the many medicines that were marketed as a panacea or miraculous remedy, whose ingredients were usually secret, unidentified, or mis-characterized, and mostly inert or ineffective. At best the placebo effect might provide some relief for whatever the problem might have been. Patented snail oil remedies actually originated in England, granted to Richard Stoughton's Elixir in 1712. [1] Since EPA was unknown in the 19th century, and various medicine salesmen or manufacturers seldom had enough skills in analytical chemisty to analyze the contents and really find out what made snake oil the "miracle" medicine it was claimed to be, snake oil became the archetype of hoax. Likewise, American snake fats do not have as high EPA contents as the Chinese water snake fat does, and the American snake oils are likely to have been far less efficient pain relievers than the original Chinese snake oil, furthermore promoting the "hoax" archetyping.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi
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    So then snake oil actually works better than some western 'science discoveries', interesting. Since we don't know much about this stuff it's hard to assess one way or another, however the most enticing thing may be it's claim to work as a growth hormone....

  7. #7
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    Dick,
    I think you did a double copy and paste. Don't leave me hanging here, tell us the rest of the story!

  8. #8
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Sorry Scott! Must have double clicked instead of single! (oops) I just went to google and typed in snake oil. Here lately have really been enjoying looking up such expressions and how they begain. For example fair to middlin has to do with grading cotton and was later used to express one's health etc.

  9. #9
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    I very much enjoyed it Dick. I have often had such thoughts but usually at times when it is impractical to try to pursue them!
    Thanx!

    B.Scott

  10. #10
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    I have been corresponding with the dealer that sells this stuff and explained the fact that even if this product prevents symptomatic KHV, it is not guarantee that the fish are not infected and will break out at a later date and thereby infect entire ponds. He has promised to contact the manufacturer for more info and if need be alter the ad to cover only hole disease and fin rot, not KHV. As this product may well be effective against these problems it it not for me to comment one way or the other. My main concern was KHV. We'll have to wait and see.

    B.Scott

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