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Thread: Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports

  1. #1
    Sansai
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    Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports

    This weekend Dick B. and members of our local Koi Club Workshop group gathered pondside to review a 2 each of 3 grade of koi (3 each Sanke and 3 each Showa imported from Toshio Sakai, May 18th this year. The purpose of this study is to better understand changes in different grade of koi from the same breeder. Sakai San hand selected these koi for our study, to be grown in our pond over the next few years. Please find attached photos that will show you the subtle changes occuring. Our workshop group really enjoyed Dick's involvement for he is very capable in explaining in detail what he notices for all to share. Maybe Dick will comment on this posting for others to enjoy in our koi study journey.

    Dan

    PS Two photos did not upload, B-2 from May 18th and A-2 Sanke from Oct. 7th. Will try to upload those later.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-2006-inc-import-tategoi-18-may-013.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-2006-inc-import-tategoi-18-may-009.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-2006-inc-import-tategoi-18-may-006.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-2006-inc-import-tategoi-18-may-011.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-work-shop-october-7-study-koi-2006-002.jpg  

    Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-work-shop-october-7-study-koi-2006-004.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-work-shop-october-7-study-koi-2006-003.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-work-shop-october-7-study-koi-2006-005.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-work-shop-october-7-study-koi-2006-007.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-2006-inc-import-tategoi-18-may-004.jpg  


  2. #2
    Jumbo cocoyboy's Avatar
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    Very interesting, I have a few myself. One showa in particular though is colored up at about 12 inches. Noticed the ones in the pictures are now 15 inches or grew an average of 3 inches with bright beni and sumi. Just wondering if Sakai's fish maintain deep colors as the grow? Or if the color is up at this size will it still maintain it quality into bigger sizes. From 12 to 15 inches they still look pretty good and getting better, I hope the same for mine too. Here is the pic of the showa.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-koishow-178c1.jpg  

  3. #3
    Sansai
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    Very nice Showa, looks like very inky black.

    One of the lessons we are learning, grade of koi related to all factors. One of those factors would be depth of color with grade of koi. Would be my guess you have a higher grade of Showa than say the 'C' grade showas pictured.

    Another lession is confirmation, narrow shoulders vs broad shoulders. You will notice in those pictures posted, some of the koi are rather narrow compared to others. Still need more time to determine what will happen regards to confirmation however.

    Dan

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Thanks Dan for posting the pics....

    It was a good time to see what the summer growth and changes showed us in these koi.

    Dan's pond is a new cement ( this is first season) so i felt that these koi had stronger sumi development than would or could have been expected in a liner or older cement pond.

    My anticipation for growth was an inch a month and while several individuals
    made that ( one even more) it was closer to about 3/4's of an inch which was good none the less.

    Dispite the decent growth not too much was lost in beni color overall, which was a testament to dan's water quality and manageable growth rates that did not press the limits as perhaps a mud pond may have.

    These koi were graded by sakai-san ( Isawa) and on some individuals it was easy to see the difference between the bottom rung and the top. But some of the
    bottom rung koi gave some of the next rung up a run for their money is telling a difference yet and so it made us ponder if our teacher was having a little fun with his "grasshoppers"......

    I felt very good in my call of one sanke that showed hardly any black, that i predicted tremendous growth and strong back showing. The key was recognizing the thinner deeper profile at the shoulder that Dan eleuded to.
    This was something that I wanted to help those in attendance to understand
    so that as these koi progressed and changed body confirmation they could see what to look for as tosai to get the kind of barrel chested show specimens that all of us desire.

    At the last moment we decided to bring into the inside heated koi pond the
    top three individuals for continued growth in the winter. This will give us another chapter in the developing story of what happens to koi that experience winter and those that grew during the same time. Will the others be able to catch up next summer....ahhh...good stuff. Keep in mind these koi
    are still young enough not to be sexually mature so it will be ok to continue to grow them at this age. Once they hit the 3-4 there is a concern with the females and what they do with the extra feed and their developing eggs....

    thanks to all that were in attendance, for their interest and intent to grow and learn in what can be a really challenging learning curve. My probl;em is the more I learn the more i realize i have yet to learn. A tribute To Sakai-san
    and his willingness to help make that happen

  5. #5
    Sansai
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    Dick's post above supports the ever changing koi development industry and how we all continue to learn from the masters. Dick, an advanced koi keeper extraordinare is very humble in his approach to all the newbies and semi-knowledgeable koi keepers. It is through his and others of his level with unselfish contributions to our hobby that keeps our hobby fresh and growing.

    Thank you Dick for all the continued support.

  6. #6
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Dan, Sharon & Dick . . .

    thank you for sharing your learning experience with us. It's fun watching Sakai's koi grow and your commentary takes it to the next level.

    Best wishes and do keep us posted, OK?

  7. #7
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I quess Toshio's desire to teach and help all to learn is something that he instilled in me. I really enjoy being able to help others to continue to expand their knowledge....appreciate comments by both Don and Dan, and hopefully we can do it again next fall.

    We can try and get Dan to post ( tho he's very busy with preparing to make his trip to japan shortly) pictures of 3 of Toshio's new type sankes that, 3 koi kichi's purchased and then took to 3 individual ponds to grow on. Sharon and Dan's koi " wild thing " is an incredible combination of a harder beni, maruzomi black, soft nice shiro and matsunosuke Gin....It's the first koi I look for when i go visit his pond....when you see what it looked like when purchased and what it looked like when we panned and photoed last weekend...it's pretty
    shocking! ( the fun part is Toshio told them it would do exactly what it did )
    sigh.....being a grasshopper is hard work!

  8. #8
    Sansai
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    Dick-pictures posted are of "Wild Thing", first photo in Japan at approx. 18 inches, Oct 18, 2004. The second this last weekend @ 24 inches. Her sumi has come up on her shoulders, gone down and now back. I'll try to get the others posted as we gather them up for Dotti and Phyllis.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-2004-october-18-wild-thing.jpg   Work Shop Study Koi / INC Imports-wild-thing-sues-sanke-work-001.jpg  

  9. #9
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    thanks Dan....fellow kb'ers...I think it's a stretch to see in one year the difference it made. Can you imagine buying the koi on the left with big empty wide shoulders...worse than competing on deal or no deal....LOL

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