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Thread: Russell Water Gardens and Kodama Koi Farm Pair Up /Merged Thread

  1. #41
    Daihonmei
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    wow, that's a shocking post.That 'anything for a buck' mentality leaves me cold. I'm really sorry you feel that way Steve.
    I guess this is why I could never get into the Fish Business. Even after all these years and with all these connections. For me, it is about the amazing roulette wheel of nature and how beautiful nature is. And how talented man can be when working with genetic art. I'm a hopeless purist I guess? JR

  2. #42
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnorth View Post
    I can't imagine putting koi into this


    That is the pond they taught their 2005 class of pond builders to build. That should increase sales at KKF. Rocks aside that pond is a heron all-you-can-eat buffet table.
    I have cleaned a couple of those things...hahaha...I can say "hard" earned money!!! If guys want to build something like that, let them I say!!! It is the learning experience of a life time...Plus everyone has to go through that watergarden to koi pond phase.

  3. #43
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori View Post
    I have cleaned a couple of those things...hahaha...I can say "hard" earned money!!! If guys want to build something like that, let them I say!!! It is the learning experience of a life time...Plus everyone has to go through that watergarden to koi pond phase.
    Not if they hire the right person the first time!!!!!!!!!

  4. #44
    Honmei keokoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori View Post
    I have cleaned a couple of those things...hahaha...I can say "hard" earned money!!! If guys want to build something like that, let them I say!!! It is the learning experience of a life time...Plus everyone has to go through that watergarden to koi pond phase.

    I Have to agree. when starting this hobby you want to throw all you can in your pond including plants. As we find out what we really want. We either go plant or koi or quit

  5. #45
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    I saw a really nice tancho that the hobbyist bought for $1500 in a Aquascape pond that was 16" deep...pretty cool, really made the fish look very big in this shallow pond...

  6. #46
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    wow, that's a shocking post.
    James, your newly-derived naivety is charming.

    Someone who wants a koi that was grown without any of the commercial undertones that comes along with it should visit their local backyard hobby breeder. Here you can find a koi that comes striaght from the heart. Never mind that the numbers game makes it nearly impossible for a backyard breeder to produce a high quality koi (I can attest to this).

    To produce good koi you need acres of space and cull thousands of fingerlings. Unless the breeder is both rich and eccentric, commercial sales become an integral part of the equation. The breeder and the dealer bring a sincere love of koi to the business. However, when it comes time to pay the orthodontist, love of the fish takes a back seat to profit margins.

    -s teveho

  7. #47
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Steve,
    I agree with Jim that some of the stuff they are doing to freshwater fish seems real horror show. But I also have to admit that some of the stuff people do to themselves looks pretty horror show as well. Judge not that you be not judged I guess.
    PS
    Consider the parrot fish. They crossed two species of cichlid; the gold severum and the red devil to create this fish. Then they injected it with dyes to produce different color varities. (pink,purple, etc.) Now they tatoo "I heart you" on their sides. Where do you draw the line?
    Last edited by dizzyfish; 11-21-2006 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Add PS

  8. #48
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    The flowerhorn cichlid which is so popular now became a hit when some guy imagined the markings along the lateral line looked like a series of numbers. I don't remember if they were written in Thai or Mandarin or what. Anyway, the guy won the local lottery with that series of numbers and flowerhorn became a big hit. A little tattoo help to make flowerhorn markings look like numbers would probably be a big help when it comes time to sell it. These fish can go for several hundred dollars. No one even knows what a flowerhorn is. There has been so much hybridization that the root species have been forgotten.

    I have the utmost respect for wild fish and am opposed to many types of fishing. However, I see fish produced in captivity for man's use as a commodity. They are no different than a doberman, Cornish cross hen or tomato. Doberman look nothing like a wild dog when born and then we cut off their tails and crop the ears. Most poultry spend their lives with about a square foot of space and every imaginable breeding and diet trick is used to get them to slaughter as quickly as possible. Tomatoes are bred and processed to look like the delicious fruit we imagine when most are rock hard and taste like paste.

    Without man's intervention and effort these commodities would not be there at all. They are not part of nature, they are a derivative of nature. It is actually dangerous and destructive to release these commodities into the wild as they could disrupt precious wild gene pools - if they can survive in the wild at all. As such, man can take "ownership" of these organisms.

    We have a moral responsibility to not cause undue pain in the organisms we nurture. However, these animal welfare practices are more for our benefit and self-esteem than the benefit of our farmed commodities because, in many cases, we do not even know what or how they feel pain. What is painful to a fish, silkworm or tomato?

    Is tattooing a fish any different than tattooing a dog? Is it moral to send a poodle to the groomers to be shaved and blow dried? Is it OK to eat chicken nuggets?

    st eve hop

  9. #49
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Steve,
    If I'm not mistaken several countries in Europe have now passed laws against cropping the ears and cutting off the tails of dogs. I believe Gemany may be one of them. And no one ever could explain which part of the chicken the nuggets came from. Suit yourself as to what you choose to do with your business.
    Mitch

  10. #50
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    I wish everyone would outlaw cropping ears. It's a pretty horrible thing to do to a juvenile dog and takes forever to heal. New-born puppies do not seem to even notice when their tails are bobbed though.

    Thank you for calling my collection of hobbies a business Mitch. We like to pretend it's an honest-to-goodness business, but the reality always seems to come up lacking.

    While I have no moral objection to tattooing fish, the unfortunate fact is that the wholesalers are not willing to pay enough premium to make it worth my while. They can do it in places like Sri Lanka (a major ornamental fish producing country) because their hourly wage is 35-cents per hour.

    -stevehop kin

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