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Thread: Question about all Japan show Grand champions

  1. #1
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Question about all Japan show Grand champions

    My question is what happens to those koi? For instance, the Maruyama showa and Mark&Martins kohaku..where are they now? Do they end up in the owners pond...or back to the breeder for breeding. Once they hit the pinnacle...then what???

  2. #2
    Nisai Ronin-Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    My question is what happens to those koi? For instance, the Maruyama showa and Mark&Martins kohaku..where are they now? Do they end up in the owners pond...or back to the breeder for breeding. Once they hit the pinnacle...then what???
    Hey, my second post!

    In the DVD "How the East was Won" about Mark and Martin, the two gents mention that they were considering selling the 2006 GC Jessica Rose kohaku. Since then, I have seen her appear as a Sakai Fish Farm parent fish, so I guess Sakai made some arrangement with M&M to get the fish back. The Maruyama showa is being used as a parent koi also as I remember hearing about some tosai from her being offered.

    - Wayne, wonders if any Jessica Rose tosai has come to the US yet.

  3. #3
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    My question is what happens to those koi? For instance, the Maruyama showa and Mark&Martins kohaku..where are they now? Do they end up in the owners pond...or back to the breeder for breeding. Once they hit the pinnacle...then what???

    Sushi.....

  4. #4
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
    Sushi.....
    Lest we forget where Nishikigoi came from
    Hmmm... $50K Kohaku, washed out beni, too old to breed, 1.1 meters, Roughly 50 lb... that works out to about $100 per California Roll

  5. #5
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    Showing true Jumbo koi near one meter in lenght and 25-30 kilos in weight is a very risky business. Many of these gentle giants has injured themselves internally when they thrash around inside a plastic bag when being transported only to die within a few weeks of the show.

    Some AJS GC koi do go to live in retirement in their owners ponds. Others are tried as parent koi but almost none are sucessful. If you believe in koi bloodlines and breeder bloodlines buy koi from the same sucessful parent set (not just female side) that have produced sucessful champion quality koi. Do not be fooled into buying the high priced offspring of a unproven AJS Grand Champion Koi. Great marketing oppertunity with minimal chance of real sucess. Anyone care to name the offspring of a AJS grand champion koi that went on to win any top awards at a AJS?

  6. #6
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayJordan View Post
    Showing true Jumbo koi near one meter in lenght and 25-30 kilos in weight is a very risky business. Many of these gentle giants has injured themselves internally when they thrash around inside a plastic bag when being transported only to die within a few weeks of the show.

    Some AJS GC koi do go to live in retirement in their owners ponds. Others are tried as parent koi but almost none are sucessful. If you believe in koi bloodlines and breeder bloodlines buy koi from the same sucessful parent set (not just female side) that have produced sucessful champion quality koi. Do not be fooled into buying the high priced offspring of a unproven AJS Grand Champion Koi. Great marketing oppertunity with minimal chance of real sucess. Anyone care to name the offspring of a AJS grand champion koi that went on to win any top awards at a AJS?
    There are none, offspring from AJS winners are removed from the parents by a generation, so the chances of them producing the same high quality are not the same.

  7. #7
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Well I think the deal that got offered according to KOI USA "How the East was won" article was that Sakai would buy Super Mask (Jessia Rose) back for half of what M$M paid for her, to use for breeding, and M&M would also get two pick of the litter nisai or something like that. Sounds like the Brits might have been chumped then, or perhaps not since the shelf life of Super Mask might be pretty short. If Sakai has her now then the deal must have went forward.
    Mitch
    Last edited by dizzyfish; 11-26-2006 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Change tosai to nisai

  8. #8
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    I would prefer to leave the specific individuals out of my discussions as their private affairs are really none of my business and who knows if what has been "reported" is accurate.

    So let's just say theorotically that a koi with "AJS Grand CHampion" potential is offered to someone for $$$$. To close the deal the breeder offers to buy the koi back at half price - if it wins the AJS - to use as a famous brood fish plus the buyer gets their choice of two "best" offspring from the 1st spawn.

    Advantage to buyer = Chance to get 1/2 price koi + 2 offspring (if koi wins AJS)
    Advantage to Seller = Sells koi at full price and gets back at 1/2 price to use in advertising/marketing campaign - plus chance to sell offspring as babies of a AJS champion + remote chance some babies might prove to be of high quality.

    BTW - Just another tidbit. Did you know that traditionally the owner of the AJS GC and other major award winner is expected to give a "bonus" to the seller. I understand it is somewhere between 10-20% of cost of the koi depending on the amount of care/service the seller provided. Owners do not have to do this but I understand it is considered very bad form not to give a bonus and could mean that owners would find themselves on the outs with many koi breeders/dealers if they do not give GC bonus.

  9. #9
    Jumbo Regenmeneer's Avatar
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    Jessica Rose has been used to spawn at SFF this year. She produced 650,000 fry, and Kentaro's comment was that they were of good quality. Not sure what level of quality though?

  10. #10
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    No disrespect meant

    Ray in general I agree with you that what takes place between two individuals is their business. However if you sell the rights to the story or even give them away, you are also sacrificing your rights to that privacy in that particular situation. Whether accurate or not, this story is now a part of urban legend. Consider that this story ran in KOI USA and was also a documentary that ran on British television, plus the story is currently being sold on video. I guess you have to be careful what you say to a reporter.
    Mitch

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