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Thread: Is the Koi Hobby a Non-Competative Diversion!?

  1. #1
    Honmei
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    Is the Koi Hobby a Non-Competative Diversion!?

    I agree with the statement Steve Hopkins made on the thread "What make a good hobbiest a good hobbiest".

    Where does that leave us with the Koi Show!!! I think Koi shows are very important and vital to the Koi hobby but it does tend to get a little competative.

    I think Koi shows allow people to see Koi they would not normally see and it can be a venue to steer newbies into the right direction if they are truly into Koi and NOT Koi in a watergarden.

    There will always be that upper level Koi fever that brings competition to those who have to win, but what about everyone else. Are there ways to bring more people into it? What can clubs do just to get people to help out with the production of a Koi show? What do you think?
    Last edited by Russell Peters; 12-12-2006 at 01:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Sanctimonious Ass - BANNED
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
    I think Koi shows allow people to see Koi they would not normally see and it can be a venue to steer newbies into the right direction if they are truly into Koi and NOT Koi in a watergarden.
    I don't think someone having a bog associated with their koi makes them ignorant and unappreciative of true koi kichi. The shows tend to be as you say for the competitive folks that claim to be the true koi kichi as opposed to the many tens of thousands more people that might not participate in showing at a show or participating in a club because they feel they are looked down upon. Just as this board and others steer the conversation and hobby the way they want it there is no clear indication that this is the best method for growing the hobby in the broadest sense, but that obviously isn't what many hard core koi kichi want. Based on the status quo show participation nationwide could be at critical mass.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Speaking for myself...

    We are newer to Koi than many and have not taken the plunge into competition grade Koi. As new members of the Oklahoma Koi Society our only possible contribution is to help do some of the work "behind the scenes" when our club puts on its annual show this coming spring. I'm looking forward to it .
    As with any affiliation with a club, there are unwritten/unspoken natural "rights of passage" that I think are healthy, productive, and instructive. Nobody has even hinted that we "should" or "must" take part in the show in order to be fully accepted. In fact, we have simply been invited to participate in activities as much as we want. Being made to feel welcomed is all it takes for me to feel encouraged to take part. In the process, we get to make new friends, help with something that is worthwhile, learn more about Koi firsthand from people with many years in the hobby, and see some stunning Koi Along the way, we may also get to help encourage others to dive into the "deep end"... Helping out in some small way helps the hobby grow by saying "come on in, the water's fine "
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  4. #4
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    Koi shows

    Although koi shows, are be definition "competitive," there is a difference and most shows that I attend, tend to be friendly competitions more than "win at all costs." Its the spirit of the actual entrants that dictate such. The true kichi have that comaraderie that makes the show fun. Those that go expecting to win have a far greater risk of disappointment than those who enter with low to no expectations.

    The Koi show drives the hobby. Without such, there would be no standards, no refinements to the koi, less interaction between hobbyists and between hobbyists and the general public.

    Steve

  5. #5
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    Whereas many might claim that it is "the koi show" that drives the hobby, why not consider that it could just as easily be the outreach that local clubs do along with the hobby promotion of vendors, etc? Heck, having goldfish showing at a "koi, goldfish, and water garden" club show or even as part of what is preached through some ZNA shows hardly destroys some moral koi kichi fiber. While sales of koi in the U.S. is seemingly growing by leaps and bounds is club membership or participation? This is a far bigger hobby than some suggest and room for lots of ideas and means of participation. Heck some clubs don't even offer a show, but have pond, water garden tours. The AKCA Seminar is certainly not about a koi show. Open the doors like the North Idaho Koi Keepers do with their Seminars along with others. Preaching to the choir doesn't grow much other than cobwebs.

  6. #6
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    First off, I am sure this will become another one of those threads. But some interesting questions/statements are posed so I'll give my 2 cents. First of all, a hobby" can exist on many levels. The popularity of a hobby is typically driven by the exposure that hobby has to the "outside world". Looking at the Koi hobby and its evolution from Japan to elsewhere, other than the invenvention of the plastic bag allowing for transportation of Koi over longer distances, its the Koi show itself and the exposure it created and still does today to both individual hobbyists that strives these indiviuals to search for knowledge. How can that fish grow so big? How can those colors and patterns be so crisp? The list goes on. Many people would never see these higher quality Koi without the Koi show. Although Koi are enjoyable in ones pond, but nothing beats the sight of a high quality Koi in a show tank.

    Whereas many might claim that it is "the koi show" that drives the hobby, why not consider that it could just as easily be the outreach that local clubs do along with the hobby promotion of vendors, etc?
    These definitely "add' to the hobby and should not be discounted by any means. But search out those with high quality koi and trace their roots and knowledgebase. I would bet that almost without exception, each were either exposed to Koi, or driven for higher quality Koi through a koi show(s).


    Heck, having goldfish showing at a "koi, goldfish, and water garden" club show or even as part of what is preached through some ZNA shows hardly destroys some moral koi kichi fiber.
    I am not sure anyone has said that? Some clubs would prefer to hi light their Koi only. Others may not have enough volunteers to take on other aspects of a show. Many others do in fact incorporate goldfish and other activities into their shows.

    While sales of koi in the U.S. is seemingly growing by leaps and bounds is club membership or participation?
    Over the last 10 years? Yep Does one measure "participation" as that at a given show or amongst all shows? The number of koi shows per year again has grown over the last 10 years. With added numbers of shows, some dilution exists, but overall exposure to the hobby has grown.

    This is a far bigger hobby than some suggest and room for lots of ideas and means of participation. Heck some clubs don't even offer a show, but have pond, water garden tours.
    Again true. Have you asked the clubs that do not have Koi shows, why they do not? Could it be because there are other shows in their locality that the membership helps at? Or perhaps they want a Koi show and do not have the funds or expertise to put one on?

    The AKCA Seminar is certainly not about a koi show. Open the doors like the North Idaho Koi Keepers do with their Seminars along with others. Preaching to the choir doesn't grow much other than cobwebs.
    John, its statements like the one above that tend to agitate people. "Open the doors" implies that the doors are currently closed elsewhere. Please list for us those closed door that do not do seminars, whether they have a koi show or not. We all will be waiting for that response. In the interim, I'll prepare the list of clubs that do. By the way, your "preaching" is growing "cobwebs."

    Steve

  7. #7
    Sansai
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    Steve , our local club has never had a show of any kind. There just arn't enough koi of a level worth showing and the " hardware " is also missing. A neighboring club ( 450 mi away ) offered to help but that idea fizzled. I'm not trying to say this is a bad thing. We do have a few " siminars " and have guests such as Brett Rowley from Bretts Koi Farm as speekers. We also put on one hell of a pond tour each year. Are we less serious about koi as a group than clubs that have shows ? Probably. There are only three or four members who even own Japanese koi in the club. Do we care less for our fish ? Don't think so. We have two KHAs and they are both great. Are we having as much fun as a large show producing club ? For most , definately , just not with real high quality koi.

    Dwight

  8. #8
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    No arguments from me Dwight

    By the sound of things, ya'll considered having a Koi show and I bet there are a few members that have attended and/or participated in such as well?

    Steve

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdfloyd45 View Post
    Steve , our local club has never had a show of any kind. There just arn't enough koi of a level worth showing and the " hardware " is also missing. A neighboring club ( 450 mi away ) offered to help but that idea fizzled. I'm not trying to say this is a bad thing. We do have a few " siminars " and have guests such as Brett Rowley from Bretts Koi Farm as speekers. We also put on one hell of a pond tour each year. Are we less serious about koi as a group than clubs that have shows ? Probably. There are only three or four members who even own Japanese koi in the club. Do we care less for our fish ? Don't think so. We have two KHAs and they are both great. Are we having as much fun as a large show producing club ? For most , definately , just not with real high quality koi.

    Dwight
    Good points Dwight, it is not the quality of Koi that make the participation important, it is the fact that you all participate that is important.

    Russ

  10. #10
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    'Hot Air' Hawley . . .

    I know I've said it before, but it does bear repeating:

    This board's motto (see above) is "Straight from Japan . . . For the Serious Hobbyist."

    What turns us on is koi shows and show koi -- their breeders, dealers, judges, clubs, owners, ponds, health and care.

    Why do you keep talking about growing the hobby and measuring it in terms of goldfish, watergardens and pond tours? Hasn't it sunk in yet that it would have absolutely no impact on 'our' hobby were all three to disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow!

    Rule One: Know your audience.
    Rule Two: If you can't change your message, change your audience.

    There are, no doubt, other boards out there where your populist anti-elite, anti-show, anti-judge message would resonate. But it ain't in here in Bito-ville, bubba.
    Don Chandler
    Member: AKCA, ZNA, KoiUSA

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