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Thread: "Quality" Roundtable...open discussion to all

  1. #1
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    "Quality" Roundtable...open discussion to all

    When we talk about quality, it usually comes down to the selection of "tategoi"....

    Open disscussion question to all is: What is your criteria for a tategoi?

  2. #2
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    Criteria? Tategoi are about inspiration, imagination and connection. There are no criteria. Criteria are used to judge koi. There are universal truths that are common in all things beautiful. Tategoi are about the journey.

  3. #3
    Tategoi cppond's Avatar
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    My understanding of the word is that it refers to koi with potential. A tosai that shows potential to be more than it currently is, and presumably, a quality show fish satsifying or exceeding the standards of its type.

  4. #4
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Tategoi...first thing in a small fish is pattern. If it's not balanced...out of the running. I don't care if it has the worlds best conformation...if it's top heavy, bottom heavy...unbalanced side to side...not a keeper. Then, I look at conformation...big head, thick tail tube...maybe has a shot at being a jumbo. Don't like the pointy head look...I like the thick full head. Then I think about skin quality....does the fish have that glow. Some fish just make you gasp when you see them. Your heart races a little, and you know you just gotta have it!!! I got that feeling with the showa pictured here...then won best in size 1 with her. When she was being benched..people's eye's were bugging out ..just oooh's and ahhh's. Even got offers from the other competitors to buy her. She is currently my favorite tategoi. Bred by Hosokai...and growing very well.

  5. #5
    Jumbo dcny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rombold View Post
    Criteria? Tategoi are about inspiration, imagination and connection. There are no criteria. Criteria are used to judge koi. There are universal truths that are common in all things beautiful. Tategoi are about the journey.
    I like what Richard said!

  6. #6
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    tategoi = "keep fish". The one you are not ready to part with. There are lots of reasons to keep a fish. The most common one is that the fish will better in the future than it is now. But, it could also be to prove, once and for all, that fish with such-and-such a characteristic do not turn out well.

    -s

  7. #7
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rombold View Post
    Criteria? Tategoi are about inspiration, imagination and connection. There are no criteria. Criteria are used to judge koi. There are universal truths that are common in all things beautiful. Tategoi are about the journey.
    Couldn't have said this much better. If there is any criteria at all, it would have to be the discerning eye of an artist fired up by the Muse. That's why I can't tell anyone how to pick a fish for me and how I can no sooner base my selections on stark logic than the man in the moon. Sure, you can say you want this kind of conformation and that sort of pattern from whatever bloodline you admire and list all kinds of attributes that the fish must have before you would want to make it your own, but in the end it all comes down to the elements that Richard relayed about the selection of tategoi--inspiration, imagination, connection and the universal truths of all things beautiful.

    It is a fascinating journey.
    Marie

    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

    "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
    paints his own nature into his pictures."
    --Henry Ward Beecher

  8. #8
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekko View Post
    tategoi = "keep fish".
    I like this definition as well. Tategoi is not always a tosai, but very well could be a 4 or 5 year old. I also take into consideration who's tategoi. Sakai's tategoi are drastically different than my personal "keep fish'' in my own pond vs my culls.

    It is not a standard written in stone by any means. I do find that sellers advertising fish for sale as tategoi confusing in that they are getting rid of their keep fish - yeah right.

    Aquitori, your question asks about tategoi, but another question could be what is your personal criteria for selecting tosai? or Nisai? etc. That would be quite a different set of answers.

    For my personal pond collection, my keep fish criteria in the past have been set around target fish load in the pond. For the benefit of the others in the environment some had to go. I could see a breeder making similar decisions based on available space and food resources so one year the culls might have a much higher quality than a different year for us buyers of the unwanted koi.

    Rick

  9. #9
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    ...But do we all agree that the term is overused in the industry?!?! I have seen the tategoi label on fish that are one step above crapagoi.

  10. #10
    Tosai Jagger's Avatar
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    Rick,

    It was pointed out to me that the Japanese breeders have limited storage space for their tategoi.Say they keep 600 as tategoi at the first pick.When it comes time to move them to wherever,and if the volume will only hold half that many,then there are 300 tategoi that may well still show promise but have to be culled somehow.

    These fish will generally find a market.With the increasing buying trips to Japan undertaken by dealers and customers alike nowadays then better and better fish become more and more available.

    How about another question?

    Out of that hypothetical 600 tategoi how many will fulfil their promise or potential?

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