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Thread: Is Sumi with Marusome Kiwa Unique to Matsunosuke?

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    Is Sumi with Marusome Kiwa Unique to Matsunosuke?

    I understand that one of Toshio Sakai's achievements is the development of sumi with marusome kiwa, but is this unique of the Matsunosuke bloodline?

  2. #2
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rombold View Post
    I understand that one of Toshio Sakai's achievements is the development of sumi with marusome kiwa, but is this unique of the Matsunosuke bloodline?
    Richard

    As far as I know, yes. This is his new sumi he has spent the last 20 years of his life trying to create.

    Mike

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    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Any chance that someone has an up-close photo or can direct where one might be found.

    Thanks

    BB

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    small example of sumi with marusome kiwa

    Here is a small example of one of my study fish which I recently acquired. See how the sumi follows the contour of the scale. I am sure someone else has a far better example from a more mature fish. My assumption is that this line does not have magoi blood because of the fish's delicate nature.


  5. #5
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbradleybradley View Post
    Any chance that someone has an up-close photo or can direct where one might be found.

    Thanks

    BB
    BB

    I went looking for Russ's thread to show a couple close-ups of what the maruzome kiwa looks like. If you go to page 15, the first thread is titled "Tokyo/Isawa Bound PSKoi". Open it to page 16 and look at posts 154/155. I think that will show a little more of what is being discussed here. By the way, the fish in post 155 IS NOT FOR SALE!! It is one Sakai is grooming/growing to hopefully compete for GC at the AJKS in a few years!!

    Mike

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    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Richard: The maruzome kiwa-type Sumi seems to be a new development in terms of "fixing" it. However, I think you will find many "pseudo-maruzome" examples in particular stages of Sumi development in the Utsuri group and occasionally in Sanke. The accomplishment of Sakai is to get lacquer black of great intensity, and it happens to be linked to the maruzome-type kiwa as occurs with the Beni in so many of his fish. I am not so sure that every example is the real thing, as opposed to a moment in time.

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    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    the accomplishment from the master is the combination of BOTH beni and sumi to display the marusome. Depending on the individual it takes from 3 to 10 years for this to play out. Mister sakai has always worked independant of each other, lines of genetics to allow him access to what ever he needs for his next step. Translated: He keeps both magoi and standard matsunosuke bloodline separate. This would indicate that he would do as much for his new
    full scale black and red. Sharon, Dottie and Phyllis from the Spokane/Cour D' Lane area have been keeping his new marusome sanke for the last coupla years and documenting growth and development. Dan and I got involved with his showa and sanke last year and have been doing the same. According to Sakai-san the actual rounding of the black or red scales starts first on color below the lateral line and then develops toward the dorsal area of the koi.

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    Okay Dick,

    What's your best guess of which farm this fish was bred on. Is it matsunosuke bloodline? Don't let the blue tub fool you.




  10. #10
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Richard

    Nice job! These are additional pics of the same fish you posted earlier? It is a sanke, right? What Dick and I are eluding to are his new showa with maruzome kiwa sumi. There was an article in Koi Bito Magazine a couple years ago that Brian did with Toshio. He said his formula for success was a big secret. Funny, he said the same thing at the seminar he gave us in February. I can certanily understand why - he spent 20 of the best years of his life working on the formula. The last 4 years he told us, they are now stable. So, even Toshio is still in the developmental stages with some of the offspring with these characteristics. See what you have to look forward too? LOL

    Mike

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