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Thread: The Origin of Bakki Showers?

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    The Origin of Bakki Showers?

    When the Bakki Shower came out a few years ago, there was much talk about how the concept was similar to trickle towers and other filtration systems used at one time or another. In my reading I've come across an article I have found quite interesting. In 1982 Rinko carried an article entitled "Sprinkling filteration" [sic]. It first mentions a sewage treatment technique referred to as "intermittent sprinkling", and explains that it proved useless because sand and gravel clogged. Then it is written:

    "Finally stones, as large as a fist, were tried and proved useful in filtering water without clogging. It was detected that bacteria and algae formed a membrane over the surface of a stone and decomposed substances in the contaminated water. ... The filter was from one meter to two meters thick. The method had been used for forty years since the beginning of the Taisho Era. Its weak points were the amount of water to be disposed was small and that flies lived around the filter. ... Because of its low efficiency, it could not be applied to the Nishikigoi pond.... In 1951 a device in which water was sprinkled successively [successfully??] was imported from the U.S. It was called the "high speed filteration[sic]". ... The filter consisted of stones, one of which diameter was about 10cm.

    "Various ways to enlarge the biological membrane for high efficiency in filteration[sic] were contrived, using plastic ... corrugated sheet, a honeycomb, and a bottle brush. They were proved quite useful.

    "However, in a year or so, the biological membrane thickened ...the filter lost its function. *** A thick membrane is not always effective. In the biological membrane, the surface where contaminated water and oxygen meet is the most active part. Below 2mm of the membrane the aerobic layer changes into anaerobic layer....

    "To summarize ... various ways have been contrived to produce high efficiency.... However, the trouble of the membrane's thickening could not be avoided. So, it is not used now.

    "The strong points of the filteration[sic] were that it could cope with contaminated water of any degrees and also any amount of the water....

    "its worst points were that BOD of the treated water was as high as 30-60ppm ...."

    And below is a sketch of the filter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Origin of Bakki Showers?-first-bakki-maybe.jpg  

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    It takes some imagination to mount a series of trays and thereby maximize air exposure, but not a whole lot. Wait long enough and the "old" is "new" again.

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    Sansai Koimann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    It takes some imagination to mount a series of trays and thereby maximize air exposure, but not a whole lot. Wait long enough and the "old" is "new" again.
    Hi Mike,
    Very interesting info.In other words,Momotaro did more R & D from there and came out with the Bakki Showers and Bacteria House media.

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    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    It takes some imagination to mount a series of trays and thereby maximize air exposure, but not a whole lot. Wait long enough and the "old" is "new" again.
    Mike
    As I understand it the water for the Mometoro fish farm is taken from the river by a 6in dia pipe . If one changes the water twice a day you would not even need any filtration so is the Baki shower really just supplimental filtration? Angels hatchery has no filtration at all except changing water .
    Regards
    Eugene

  5. #5
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    Mike
    As I understand it the water for the Mometoro fish farm is taken from the river by a 6in dia pipe . If one changes the water twice a day you would not even need any filtration so is the Baki shower really just supplimental filtration? Angels hatchery has no filtration at all except changing water .
    Regards
    Eugene
    Hmmmmm.........very good point!

  6. #6
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Momotaro (maeda-san) also knows that too much fresh water is no good either. I don't think any of the breeders who had this man groom their client;s fish on the way to tops in the all japan show doubt the ability of this man to create water and grow and finish many different bloodlines of koi.


    Mike M your right, everything old is made new again.

    (save those wide and narrow ties )

  7. #7
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Mike M your right, everything old is made new again.

    (save those wide and narrow ties )[/quote]

    Dick

    What about the argoyle socks??? LOL

    Mike

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    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Eugene: I believe Momotaro is doing 10% or so daily inflow of fresh water. I hope none of it is from a river. Bio-security concerns would negative use of surface waters inhabited by carp (or any fish IMO) without pre-treatment to drinking water standards or similar. I understand that Brett uses a surface reservoir as source water in his operations, but I have the impression that his bio-security procedures are very stringent. A constant in-flow of fresh water of proper condition is ideal. As DickB points out, however, what the Japanese sometimes call "raw water" may maintain fish health, but is considered negative for the best development. The term "mellow water" is a subject on which JR does an excellent job of waxing eloquently.

    Koimann: Yep. Exactly. Lately there have been posts around about cleaning/maintenance of Bakki Showers and Bacteria House media. To be expected now that the Bakki has been around for a few years. The topic is perhaps of more interest in warm climates where the filters operate all year, than in climates where the units are shut down over winter and the media stored until Spring. The idea of thickening "membrane" is a bit confusing to me. I am guessing it refers not just to the biofilm, but also algae growth as suggested in an early passage in the article. I think of a thick biofilm as being a good thing. I do not believe it refers to clogging. Any way, I was already planning to clean off the BH in my Bakki one tray at a time (by just swishing it around in a trough of pond water to get off the debris & residues). This article has me a bit more committed to getting around to doing it.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    I've seen a few threads here and there with pictures of "mature" BH media compared to new, but none where the media was heavy with mulm or overly thick biofilm. It would be interesting to see mature media from a warm climate where it is in service 24/7/365 with examples from each successive tray for comparison of film thickness and bacteria subspecies from each tray. One would expect differing colonies from top to bottom as the digestive process goes from ammonia conversion in the top tray to nitrate conversion in the bottom.
    It also makes me wonder if simply rotating the media from bottom to top would accomplish the cleaning process over time, but it would be a lot of work and a multi-year project to see... Probably a lot simpler just to ask Momo what they do . Whatever it is seems to work for them
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  10. #10
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    [quote=MikeM;80149]Eugene: I believe Momotaro is doing 10% or so daily inflow of fresh water. I hope none of it is from a river. Bio-security concerns would negative use of surface waters inhabited by carp (or any fish IMO) without pre-treatment to drinking water standards or similar. I understand that Brett uses a surface reservoir as source water in his operations, but I have the impression that his bio-security procedures are very stringent. A constant in-flow of fresh water of proper condition is ideal. As DickB points out, however, what the Japanese sometimes call "raw water" may maintain fish health, but is considered negative for the best development. The term "mellow water" is a subject on which JR does an excellent job of waxing eloquently.
    Mike
    I do not think that he would be getting water from the river now I was going by an old Rinko article . There are so many variables such as water temperatures size of pond stocking rates and feeding rates . If for example the fish were mature females that spent 4 months in a mud pond they would be fed little . In our small ponds meaning 10000 gal and fish all year round the Baki would be just good added filtration .I hope to go there next year so will be able to see for myself .
    Regards
    Eugene

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