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Thread: Shiro: White is Bad, White is Good

  1. #21
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Oh, my. ....How old? I'm thinking there is more of the package to be revealed.

  2. #22
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Patience weedhopper, nature will reveal her secrets when the time is right!!

    Mike

  3. #23
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
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    *bump*

    How about now?

  4. #24
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Mike is a friend of mine , I don't recall this Shiro . I'll be talking to him Friday morning and find out what's up .


    Maybe it's our water in Louisville . They just won't finish !

  5. #25
    Jumbo l113892's Avatar
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    Omosako shiro.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shiro: White is Bad, White is Good-omosako-shiro2.jpg   Shiro: White is Bad, White is Good-omosako-shiro-marusome.jpg   Shiro: White is Bad, White is Good-omosako-pair2.jpg  

  6. #26
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I have enjoyed this thread

    It really does help the student to begin to grasp what it is they need to recognize and look for.What a great effort, and can be used as a poster child for what great opportunities are available for instruction on this board.

    Mike there is a perfect white koi. I saw one once in my life and didn't have a camera to capture it. It was among those akemae kigoi bred, and it showed up white instead of yellow. Yes it had red eyes. Bone china white would best discribe it.....

  7. #27
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    A lot more of the package is revealed. Those participating in the Shiro Utsuri grow-out who are getting the nearly white ones are going to be re-thinking any disappointment they may have felt.

  8. #28
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    A lot more of the package is revealed. Those participating in the Shiro Utsuri grow-out who are getting the nearly white ones are going to be re-thinking any disappointment they may have felt.
    No regrets here, Mike. With the whitest brightest fish in the competition, I'm ready for either the most glorious shiro muji or a pleasant surprise. (and with a gh between 300-400 and a 7.8ph, I'm banking on the surprise...)

  9. #29
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I began thinking about this thread (which is much older than I thought!) in regard to a photo of a 'Tancho Shiro Utsuri' posted on FB recently. A few years ago, Omosako began using the label 'Tancho Shiro Utsuri' for Tancho produced in the course of breeding Shiro Utsuri. Such koi are Tancho Showa by definition since varieties are determined by phenotype, not genotype. However, there is a difference in the ones produced by Omosako.... the shiroji is the bright, pure white of Omosako's Shiro Utsuri and the sumi is more like the intense glossy black of Omosako's better Shiros than the sumi typically seen in Showa. Seeing such a Tancho brought to mind this thread because that koi emphasized how spectacular a koi with a true white ground can be, and how rare it is to see such pure white on a koi with strong beni.

    When I started this thread 9 years ago, I was beginning to think about how different sorts of shiroji support pigments. Although I have learned much over the years since, this is a subject that continues to challenge. Since 2007, I have seen Kohaku with true white shiroji nearly as white as that of the best Shiro Utsuri, and with brilliantly red beni, but none that exceeded 75-80cm. The fact that some Kohaku with such true white can fully maintain their beni for many years and reach 75-80cm tells me that more could be produced with intense effort by breeders. But, it remains that the Kohaku produced are overwhelmingly a less pure white with a red-orange beni. I read some comments about the All-Japan GC a few days ago praising her shiroji as pure white. And, indeed it was wonderful. But, video of her taken by several different people disclosed a koi with a white ground that had the slightest peachy tint, as if a few drops of orange paint had been mixed with white. Some of the same folks posted video of Shiro Utsuri. With those koi there was no diluted color. The ground color was truly white... stark white.


    As many know, Omosako is regularly breeding Showa now. I find myself hoping they can find the right combination of genetics to produce Showa as white as their best Shiro Utsuri, with the same lacquer paint sumi. Even if they can do that, I expect a problem in the marketplace if such a Showa does not also have a body structure that can take growing to jumbo size. Even with Omosako, there are not many Shiro Utsuri that keep their best features when over 85cm. It may just be that the genetic base that gives us true white is not compatible with the genetic mix that gives super jumbo size and strong beni. But, I am an optimist. I like to think that some day the right mix of genes will come together.

  10. #30
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Very nice Mike!

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