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Thread: Motoaka . . .

  1. #1
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Motoaka . . .

    On a kohaku, who agrees (or disagrees) that:

    1. motoaka is a sign of very high quality hi?
    2. motoaka should grow out as the koi gets older?

    How about on a showa?

    (Bonus points for experience. )

  2. #2
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    1. motoaka is a sign of very high quality hi?

    This question is yes and no. Hobbyist shouldn't rely on this one sign of quality they should also focus on the depth of hi on the rest of the body. I have seen Kohaks with red pecs and have seen there beni just go down hill.

    2. motoaka should grow out as the koi gets older?

    If the fish is of high quality the red pec should pull in a bit closer to the base of the pec. If the red pec spreads(niban hi) as the fish grows it is a sign of poor quality.
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    I agree with toni

  4. #4
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Bringing up an old thread, I was recently asked about a showa showing motoguru on right pec, motoaka on left pec. I replied that I was not knowledgeable enough to know exactly how this might affect the overall color, that it was interesting, but made me nervous.

    Any other ideas about this? The motoguru is tight on this nisai koi, but it has light shading between the rays. The motoaka is very tight, no extension into the remainder of the fin.

    Any knowledgeable ideas on this? Thanks.

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    For a Showa to have motoguro in one pectoral and motoaka in the other could create an interesting fish depending on how the pattern is otherwise balanced by this unusual combination, but it is not a desirable trait and the koi would need to be quite spectacular in other respects to overcome this negative in the show ring. It could still be a desirable koi from a collector perspective.

    Your description of the motoguro sounds rather typical for a nisai. Predicting how it will develop with any reliability requires knowing more about how motoguro develops in the particular matching of oyagoi. Seeing older siblings, etc. would be very helpful in venturing a guess. If the motoaka is so tight at the base of the pec that it will not be observable in a mature fish, it is not as negative; but the Showa would still be unbalanced and need other outstanding features to overcome this factor.

    Looking back through show books from several decades ago, I get the impression that the presence of motoguro in one pectoral only is seen more today than in yesteryears. I do not know if this is because standards were more strictly observed in the past when pattern was given more importance, or if it is a by-product of improvements brought about by the heavy use of Sanke genetics to improve sumi and body structure.... directly due to Sanke influence, or indirectly due to other traits being so improved that the deficiency is not given the weight it otherwise would receive.

    Something to be aware of is the tendency of those who market koi to unduly de-emphasize a negative trait whenever an outstanding koi wins a high award in Japan despite possessing that negative trait. We hear such things as "red in the pec of a Kohaku is no big deal, as proved by the GC at such 'n such show having red in a pec". This can be misleading. It is a big deal. For such a fish to win a major award in a major show in Japan requires that the koi have other traits so outstanding that the negative is overcome. Of course, what dealers often say is "red in the pec is not necessarily a problem; you have to look at the whole fish". That statement is quite true. But, what the prospective customer usually hears is: "red in the pec is no big deal". Those of us bitten by the koi bug often hear what we want to hear, and not what is actually said.

  6. #6
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Thanks, Mike, I appreciate your illumination of the subject for me. Sounds a lot like I was thinking, but I was also concerned how this in a nisai might impact the sumi down the road. Just an interesting question, though. The fish in question had other problems in my eyes, but this oddity stood out to me and seemed to merit discussion.

    Unfortunately, I do not know the heritage of the fish, or even the sex, and am judging merely bvy a series of photographs, so I could always be totally wrong. Might even see a GC with 2 differfent fins in a few years, and prove us all wrong. The interest factor of the 2 different fins is, well, neat. If the pattern develops in a way that works to balance this one.

    My main reason for questioning here was to attempt to determine if this would have any bearing on the quality of the sumi that comes up.

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