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Thread: What is "Sleeping" syndrome in Koi?

  1. #21
    Fry
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcuss View Post
    Sounds like you're on the right track with making changes to your pond. So good on you for that! Any chance there have been insecticides or fertilizers spread/sprayed in your area recently?
    Not that I know, and doesnt seem likely. Pretty residential neighborhood, none of my neighbors spray anything.

    At this point we need to eliminate as many uncontrolled variables as possible and also to try and get the koi to a place where they won't be handled very much and their environment can be controlled and medicine/treaments administered accurately and easily.
    Honestly, Ive made my diagnosis. If Im wrong (and even if Im right), I risk losing 50 euro worth of fry that I havent had long enough to feel attached to. Im not desperate to save them, Im mostly curious. And slightly worried about the others (which are worth quite a bit more than 50 euro), and curious if its possible for sleeping disease virus to effect them in anyway. Thats actually my main question.

    As for the rest, Im not going to put a large pool in my garden; for those baby koi, the 100 liter bassin Im using ought to be plenty. It has a cover, I have an airstone in there attached to the same 160L/min air pump that feeds my filters and main pond. I dont have filtration there, but I put in a small amount of activated coal and zeolite, as Im not adding medication yet. Ill do water changes eventually.

    If ever I need to move the big ones in to quarantine, my biggest problem will likely be catching them, but if so, there are recently uncovered ruins of a small liner pond next to the house, and at first glance, the wooden framing is completely overgrown and rotten to the bone, but the liner may actually still be intact. It hasnt been touched in 20? years, its covered by iris and some other plants lol, its currently nothing but a massive blanket of plants and roots, but it lifts away to reveal what appears to be a perfectly fine liner, not penetrated by any roots. Ill test that later this week, I dont think its very deep, but it might do for a quarantine pond, and/or doing double duty as a place to grow floating plants.

    And if you want you can drain down the old pond and get it painted. The painting part is an aside... but hey, in for a penny, in for a pound.
    Oh, I fully intend to paint it. Next time I drain it completely. Which I plan no sooner than in 10 years lol.

    There's simply too many variables going on and nothing definitive has been discovered yet despite your best efforts and the assistance of who I can only assume is a Veternarian who knows about koi. (or at the very least an experienced hobbyist with a lot of knowledge).
    And you may assume the vet that examined my fish knows his craft. Its a marine biologists by education and a koi pond shop keeper/trader/breeder/doctor by profession for over 20 years.. I have full trust in him.

    So Occam's razor tells me its sleeping sickness. No other explanation Ive seen heard or read makes sense, let alone more sense. And I dont see any argument against it being sleep sickness either, its apparently a textbook example. At least for the small koi. Keep in mind Im not betting my life on this diagnosis, but that of a few small, cheap koi .

    As for the "big" ones, I havent seem them flash once today, though I havent been watching very long. They seem much better with the 0.15% salt, although the oldest one still has his red veins in his tail. Then again, he may have had that for a much longer time, and perhaps ive only noticed now that water is actually clear enough to see it.

    If you look at the image I linked on battle-fields, the last pic, its the biggest koi in that pic. On that pic it even appears reddish, at the bottom end of his tail, and on whatever you call that other fin near his his tail (bottom end). This is exactly how it is now, and that picture predates the purchase of my "sleepers". So perhaps that is not a new symptom induced with the introduction of the small ones. Ill see if I can find any other pics on my camera later. That doesnt mean it may not be a symptom, just not one linked to my guess of sleeping sickness.

    The new, small koi that I havent caught yet, and still hide in the main pond, are still flashing, even jumping. But no longer floating, and no longer isolating themselves, they mingle with the big ones again. Not sure if that is progress, but I hope so. The ones I did catch and are in the plastic container, arent doing too well. But they were in worst shape when I caught them, floating near dead.

    Anyway, Ive salted the water in that container to 0.4% (I read 0.3 and 0.5, so i averaged those ), ive increased the temperature from ~15C to 18C now, and unless someone tells me otherwise, I tought about increasing it 2C per day until 30C. Or until they are dead. Assuming they survive Im not too sure how I go about reintroducing them eventually.. I suppose letting it cool again 2C per day or something? Also unsure how long I have to keep them in their hot salt tub. Some say a few days, others say several weeks.

  2. #22
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Bumping up for Reza. This discussion went a bit off course, but contains pretty much all I know about 'sleeping sickness.'

    Whenever treating with salt, I would use 0.5 - 0.6%.

  3. #23
    Administrator Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Bumping up for Reza. This discussion went a bit off course, but contains pretty much all I know about 'sleeping sickness.'

    Whenever treating with salt, I would use 0.5 - 0.6%.

    Absolutely. The koi will start shedding mucus during this time too, so you need to change the water (and salt) when it starts clouding up and smelling foul.
    Brian Sousa
    Koi-Bito Forum

  4. #24
    Sansai Reza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Bumping up for Reza. This discussion went a bit off course, but contains pretty much all I know about 'sleeping sickness.'

    Whenever treating with salt, I would use 0.5 - 0.6%.
    Thanks Mike, several days ago I got a news that several farms which has infected to this virus. these farms uses river water and drain back to river to escape of wiled carp infection these farms are closed.

  5. #25
    Fry
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    Shelton,CT,USA
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    Resting infection is an anxiety reaction to ailment in koi and carp populaces. Without treatment, the fish will gradually die. Tainted fish exhibit vitality misfortune and swim gradually. They will swim close to the surface and lie on their sides.

  6. #26
    Tosai
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    May 2006
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    I wanted to add some additional information. I breed my own koi (or try to) and I completely keep them seperated from the main pond to avoid sleeping disease until they are large enough and have some resistance build up. When they are around 15cm I introduce a fish from the pond in their pond and then they get sleeping disease. For me this is a parasite that lives on every koi (i think it's carp pox) and has nothing to do with type of pond (my fry is grown in an Intex swimming pool, so nothing natural about it). I treat with Elbagin and salt + temperature.

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