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Thread: Help with filteration stage of planning..

  1. #1
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    San Diego, California
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    Smile Help with filteration stage of planning..

    Hi Everyone,
    I need your help. I now know that I want a (L) 16 x (W) 5 x (D) 3' 6"-5' , depending on slope to an Aireated BD that wil be secured in place with cement. The sides will be vertical. I plan on using TPR's to help with circulation too.

    1) Is there a proper amount of slope I need to the BD?(ie; 1" for every 5', that type of answer)

    I will be using/making a DIY Skippy Bio Filter. A skimmer for surface filtering. Any suggestions on a great DIY surface skimmer? I want to include some kind of DIY Mechanical filter too.

    2)Any suggestions for a DIY Mechanical filter based on your experiences?
    • The pond will be a Traditional Koi only pond.
    • With approximately 2' to 2' 6" above ground and 1' 6" to 2' 6" below ground.
    • I will be using a preliner as well as a 45 mil.EPDM made by Firestone
    3)What dictates what filter can or should use gravity to be fed?

    Since I will be making the filters I need your opinions!!!
    I bet sombody is going to point out that I have probably forgotten something being a Newbie.
    Once I have decided what filters I will use I will then begin to plan the plumbing.
    What else do I need to have in my filtration system to have my Koi thrive?

    Thanx Vince

  2. #2
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    1) Is there a proper amount of slope I need to the BD?(ie; 1" for every 5', that type of answer)


    MCA: Depends....will the air domes be own 24/7? If so the floor can be flat. Our pond floor is flat and the currents from the air domes move everything to the drains. IMHO unless you pour marbles into the pond, the slope will simply not make that much difference. To make a huge difference...run those air domes.



    I will be using/making a DIY Skippy Bio Filter. A skimmer for surface filtering. Any suggestions on a great DIY surface skimmer? I want to include some kind of DIY Mechanical filter too.


    MCA: If you are going DIY use two different filter types. The first is submerged. For submerged the first choice is a fluid bed with second choice being Jmatting. The second type of filter is wet/dry. Examples are trickle towers or bakki-type showers. The choice between a TT and shower are mostly about how many gph you want/need to process.


    2)Any suggestions for a DIY Mechanical filter based on your experiences?
    • The pond will be a Traditional Koi only pond.
    • With approximately 2' to 2' 6" above ground and 1' 6" to 2' 6" below ground.
    • I will be using a preliner as well as a 45 mil.EPDM made by Firestone
    MCA: mechanical stage...static K1 or vortex microscreen (static K1 would be much easier). BTW...the pond design is a bit shallow ain't it? Do 2' up with a wall and at least 4' down.



    3)What dictates what filter can or should use gravity to be fed?

    MCA: gravity fed uses less power (to return water from final filter stage). Pump first would have the pump's impeller breaking up the debris that you are trying to gently capture and dump. The logistics and the owner's ability to dig usually make a big impact to do pump or gravity fed. Go gravity fed if at all possible.




    Since I will be making the filters I need your opinions!!!
    I bet sombody is going to point out that I have probably forgotten something being a Newbie.


    MCA: what is the aeration plan? The largest consumer of dissolved oxygen (DO) is the filter bacteria followed by the koi. To provide them with a good environment you want the DO level to be as high as possible. A good rule of thumb is to pump 40L or air for each 1200 US gallons. The air can go into the pond (remember air domes) and/or into the filters (remember fluid beds). Any extra aeration from waterfalls, TTs or showers is just gravy.




    Once I have decided what filters I will use I will then begin to plan the plumbing.
    What else do I need to have in my filtration system to have my Koi thrive?



    MCA: before doing any equipment purchasing do a couple of things. First join a local AKCA and/or ZNA koi club. Visit local ponds and see what you like and don't like. Look at the books on the attached list. Read at least the 1st, 3rd, and 4th books. You can get them from Amazon or maybe borrow them from a local club library or club member. Start your planing. Ask local members for comments/suggestions. Ask us crazies on the BBSs. Replan. Ask everyone again. Replan. Check about any local permits you may need (espeically out in CA). Replan. Begin to purchase equipment and make any/all DIY items. When everything is as ready as possible...dig that earth.

    A koi pond is an expensive undertaking. Building it right the first time...is cheapest.


    Regardless of what you do, we all wish you every success in the divine madness of koi keeping.

    Poll: Which Koi Books Have You Read? - KoiShack
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  3. #3
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
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    MCA,
    Thanks for taking time to read my post and provide input.
    MCA:
    "Depends....will the air domes be own 24/7? If so the floor can be flat. Our pond floor is flat and the currents from the air domes move everything to the drains. IMHO unless you pour marbles into the pond, the slope will simply not make that much difference. To make a huge difference...run those air domes."
    I plan on running the air domes 24/7 and only turn it off when vewing my Koi.

    Does anyone else have an opinion with having the bottom slope or not?
    Thanks,
    Vince

  4. #4
    Tosai
    Join Date
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    MCA:
    " If you are going DIY use two different filter types. The first is submerged. For submerged the first choice is a fluid bed with second choice being Jmatting. The second type of filter is wet/dry. Examples are trickle towers or bakki-type showers. The choice between a TT and shower are mostly about how many gph you want/need to process."

    I can see I will have more research to do.
    Do the TT need to be a certain diameter? What do you think the shortest vetical height I could get away with is?
    I have in my plans to use a small Tea House to help disguise the filtration system.
    Thanks Vince

  5. #5
    MCA
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    I can see I will have more research to do.
    Do the TT need to be a certain diameter?

    MCA: the larger the pipe (anywhere in the system) the less resistance to flow. Most folks have done pond returns (to TPRs or other) via 1.5" or 2" pipe. Again 2" gives much less backpressure on the pump (a good thing). Use a ballvalve on the output of the pump to control flow...not pipe size restrictions. To me TPRs are grossly overrated....if you run air domes 24/7. I have yet to see a TPR that makes an detectable horizonal rotation compared to the huge ring/donut currents caused by air domes. To me, TPRs are OK...but not a really an effective way to move lots of water.


    What do you think the shortest vetical height I could get away with is?

    MCA: A pond can't be too deep for koi (riverine carp). They need all the room (vertical is just as important as horizontal) we can give them. Our pond is 8'...2' up and 6' down. Given a choice, I would never do a koi pond with less depth. To me 6' should be the minimum target depth. Again, read those books on the list!!! Remember, you are dealing with large riverine carp, not small goldfish. There is a huge difference in what makes a good environment for those two different fish species.


    I have in my plans to use a small Tea House to help disguise the filtration system.


    MCA: The tea house idea is fine. You may have conflict when the word small gets involved. Filters are not small. You need room to move around and open/close valves, flip switches, change lamps...etc. But we are getting way ahead of ourselves. First do the preliminary pond system research with the books, local club members, and crazies on the BBSs.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    Orlando, Florida
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    I prefer a saucered bottom. I'll leave it to others to suggest an optimal slope. In my pond the differential is nearly a foot with the BD about 6' from the side walls.

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