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Thread: Sexing Tosai: Yeah or Neh?

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    Sexing Tosai: Yeah or Neh?

    I have read a number of threads where hobbyists attempt to sex tosai or young nisai. There are threads where 1/3 says that it can't be sex, 1/3 says male, and 1/3 says female. There's even a difference in opinion among dealers in the U.S. as well. Is it possible to sex tosai or young nisai? I know that this question is very helpful, especially for beginners who don't have the skills or finance to acquire female nisai or sansai.

    I believe that the Japanese breeders know how to sex tosai, especially since most tosai that are sold here in the U.S. are males. My question is, what is it that they look for?

    There is a great article in the AKCA's book of Judging and Buying Koi written by Brady Brandwood on sexing koi. In this article, Brady comments that it's possible to sex koi if you look at siblings from the same hatch. He says that if you compare siblings, the colors of females generally tend to be more bland. He then went on to explain how to sex koi that are two years or older.

    I have a dealer who is also a very good friend who says that he can sex tosai just by looking at the body conformation. In particular, he says that he looks for the broadness of the shoulders and the roundness of the pectoral fins. I have bought a few tosai from him. As far as friendship is concerned, that remains to be seen in a couple of years!

    As far as sexing tosai is concerned, here is what I have gathered. Please correct me or comment on any of these criteria:

    1. Body conformation: females have broader shoulders and are more stout-looking compared to males.

    2. Pectoral fins: females have rounder fins with rays that are even in length. The fins usually have less colors and are generally opaque.

    3. Color: females have blander colors, especially beni.

    4. Anus: female tosai have nonprotruding anus when pressed whereas males have protruding anus.

    5. Belly: a dealer said that the bellies of males tend to be harder whereas females tend to be softer.

    These are what I have gathered in this topic. Please feel free to dissect, comment, or add to this list.

  2. #2
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Hello Lammikoi . . .

    If you use the Search feature (it's located just above the Banner Ads in the top portion of the screen) you can pull up any number of threads where sexing tosai has been discussed by some pretty heavy hitters in the profession/hobby.

    Sexing tosai is an interesting topic, for sure -- and one that doesn't lend itself to a simple rules. So pour yourself a fresh cup of coffee (or beverage of choice), relax and have some fun viewing some of those great old threads.

    Then come on back to us. It''ll be interesting to see how your list has changed?
    Don Chandler
    Member: AKCA, ZNA, KoiUSA

  3. #3
    Tosai
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    Thank you Don. I will definitely use the "search" feature in the future. Per your recommendation, I pulled out my bottle of vodka, which is my beverage of choice and started drinking while reading the threads. I am wasted but still have lots to read.

  4. #4
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LammiKoi View Post
    Thank you Don. I will definitely use the "search" feature in the future. Per your recommendation, I pulled out my bottle of vodka, which is my beverage of choice and started drinking while reading the threads. I am wasted but still have lots to read.
    ROFLMAO

  5. #5
    Jumbo
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    It is possible but difficult for 5-6" or less tosai. Although there 're some neutral type, it's much easier to see it by 7-8" or more.... but still not guarantee 100% for small size tosai.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    lots have been said about jumbo tosai but the sex and sense of development is more advanced and easier to distinquish.

    some advanced males will have sandpapery gill plates or bumps on the leading ray of the pecs. The males tend to have a thicker bone on the leading edge of the pecs than females as well.

    I do agree that females have a softer look to them.

  7. #7
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Lammikoi . . .

    How we doing today? Feeling a little rough around the edges, are we? LOL

    As a 'peace offering' here's a good 'Bito thread with some insight (and some humor) you sure don't want to miss.

    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/general-koi-forum/6495-future-koi.html

    Happy Reading!

  8. #8
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Lammikoi . . .

    How we doing today? Feeling a little rough around the edges, are we? LOL

    As a 'peace offering' here's a good 'Bito thread with some insight (and some humor) you sure don't want to miss.

    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/general-koi-forum/6495-future-koi.html

    Happy Reading!
    Thank you for the thread, KoiCop. After reading the thread, I am not only a lil rough around the edges, but am starting to see spider webs as well..... Just when I thought I was somewhat grasping the concept of sexing koi, you go and throw that thread in. Now I am even more confused than when I first started........

    I need to lay off this topic for a while, perhaps climb a mountain and meditate just to clear my head. What started out as a simple question has now turned into something very deep that only the enlightened can grasp.....so off to ze mountain I go. And when I come back, I am going to write a novel on this topic.........

    Zen Lammister

  9. #9
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by LammiKoi View Post

    I need to lay off this topic for a while, perhaps climb a mountain and meditate just to clear my head. What started out as a simple question has now turned into something very deep that only the enlightened can grasp.....so off to ze mountain I go. And when I come back, I am going to write a novel on this topic.........

    Zen Lammister
    So, you have now discovered the spiritual side of Koi keeping. When you climb that mountain, don't forget the vodka.LOL It will make things seem clearer.

  10. #10
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
    So, you have now discovered the spiritual side of Koi keeping. When you climb that mountain, don't forget the vodka.LOL It will make things seem clearer.
    Yes I have indeed! I am climbing the mountain right now with a bottle of vodka in each pocket......and a laptop so I can post in KB! I was afraid one bottle wasn't going to be enough! Hahahaha!!!!!

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