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Thread: "Black Water" Conditions

  1. #1
    Nisai k.tran's Avatar
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    Question "Black Water" Conditions

    so during the week we had ALOT of winds and ALOT of fires in the area

    when looking at our pond it had ALOT of leaves in it and started to turn the water orageish reddish this reminded me of black water conditions used the in the aquarium hobby!

    so i was wondering....if black water conditions are healthy for koi and if it will help, as of now i am reserching up the topic and am going to test it on our pond to see the differences the fish make tell me if its not good for them as far as i have reserched it should be a healthier inviornment
    Kelvin Tran

  2. #2
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    You need to remove the leaves and ash. If the water color is darker, that's from the tannin. The leaves will decompose and cause an unnecessary load on your system, lowering the orp.

  3. #3
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Kelvin . . .

    Clean the pond! Then clean your room!

    (this is your mother speaking )

  4. #4
    Honmei
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    We had a fire behind our house three years ago and the ash in the pond killed all of our Koi.

  5. #5
    Nisai k.tran's Avatar
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    our pond has already been cleared

    but any1 know anything about the black water conditions using i think japanese leaves or mylasian or something like that to highten the water quality?

  6. #6
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Kelvin . . .

    Clean the pond! Then clean your room!

    (this is your mother speaking )
    hahahaha!!! good sense of humors, Don.

    Steve

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    'Blackwater' refers to a type of naturally occurring water condition to which various tropical fish have adapted. It is typically very soft, acidic pH, high in tannins, but very low in contaminants. The water often appears 'lifeless', because of the relative absence of plant life in the water. This is due to the absence of mineral content in the water. Fish adapted to it are generally carnivores surviving on insect life, rather than herbivores. Fish from these conditions are usually extremely sensitive to nitrogenous contaminants. There are some beautiful African tetras that are extremely difficult to keep because even the best filtered aquarium cannot lower contaminants to a level necessary for the fish to survive long term.

    Carp are very adaptable. I am sure they would live and reproduce in 'blackwater'... at least the ones that survived initially. It is not, however, the water deemed best suited to koi. The soft waters of Niigata are wholly different, with pH seldom being below 6.8 in the data I have seen. In a 'blackwater' environment, a pH of 6.2 to 5.5 (and even lower) is more likely to be found. Niigata water is also free of tannins and such. Although the carp is very adaptable, keep in mind that nishikigoi were developed in Niigata and can be considered as being adapted to those water conditions through a few hundred years of selective breeding from ordinary food fish to what we prize today.

  8. #8
    Nisai k.tran's Avatar
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    hmmm ic... but what if i could make the ph on the balckwater able to be up to 6.8-7.0? then would that be good....and keep the ph constant of course

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    A ph around 7.4 is generally considered best for koi. Altering pH is a complex matter. The most important thing is to have a stable pH with as little fluctuation as possible. It is better to have a stable pH of 8.4 than to have a pH goal of 7.4, but end up with a pH that bounces around between 7.0 and 7.8. Obtaining a stable, lower pH than the source water typically requires use of reverse osmosis or water softening equipment. Even then, the softening of the water does not necessarily alter the pH much. Hardness and pH are inter-related, but the interactions are complex and the water of different ponds will behave differently due to the whole range of components in the chemistry of any particular water source. Adding chemicals to alter pH may work in the small volume of an aquarium (but often does not!); however, in the large volume of a pond, with the frequent large volume water changes needed for maintaining high water quality, attempting to attain a lowered and stable pH is impractical... and a huge amount of work. Personally, I have a higher pH than I would prefer, but I can keep it stable so I stick with it. Some day I may copy a friend who uses a water softener, mainly to have the softer water, but also to get a somewhat lowered pH.

    Before playing with 'blackwater', I'd strongly recommend you check into water softening systems koikeepers you can visit are using. Much better to copy from those who have learned how to do it than to experiment on your fish. Besides, koi in 'blackwater' are not going to be very attractice to observe.

  10. #10
    Jumbo RookieKoiGuy's Avatar
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    1 pond that was close to the fire had to be drained.
    The Ash from fire had ph 4.7

    You better ck yours,
    Tom

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