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Thread: Salinity Mathematician Needed

  1. #1
    Nisai
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    Salinity Mathematician Needed

    I am sure there must be a formula to calculate water volume based on salinity. Here is my example:

    Example 1:
    If a pond has 0.00% salinity and you add one 25kg bag of salt and the salinity goes up to 0.32%, what is the volume of the water?

    Example 2:
    If a pond has 0.13% salinity and you add 4 x 25kg bags of salt and the salinity goes up to 0.42%, what is the volume of the water?

    Does anybody have such a formula where you can add in the start salinity, the end salinity and the kg of salt and then it calculates the pond volume?

  2. #2
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    Example 1:
    If a pond has 0.00% salinity and you add one 25kg bag of salt and the salinity goes up to 0.32%, what is the volume of the water?
    0.32% = 0.0032 as a decimal fraction
    25 kg divided by 0.0032 equals 7812 kg
    1 liter weighs 1 kg so volume is 7812 liters (= 2064 US gallons)

    Example 2:
    If a pond has 0.13% salinity and you add 4 x 25kg bags of salt and the salinity goes up to 0.42%, what is the volume of the water?
    0.0042 minus 0.0013 equals 0.0029
    4 times 25 kg equals 100 kg
    100 kg divided by .0029 equals 34,483 kg or liters

    This assumes that the salt has no moisture or impurities.

    -s t e v

  3. #3
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Steve . . .

    That's certainly simpler to do in kg and litres, isn't it?

  4. #4
    Tosai
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    Here is a simple salt calculator. I have only used a drop style test kit. I used one drop increments instead of two drops as stated in the instructions. A salt meter may be more accurate. I have found the more times you do the test and average the results, the closer you will get to the actual volume as determined by a flow meter.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Seifert View Post
    Here is a simple salt calculator. I have only used a drop style test kit. I used one drop increments instead of two drops as stated in the instructions. A salt meter may be more accurate. I have found the more times you do the test and average the results, the closer you will get to the actual volume as determined by a flow meter.
    John . . .

    Interesting .pdf cheat sheet you posted. Thanks!

    Any idea who prepared it, or where you obtained it (if you didn't do it yourself ), since that info would be necessary for accuracy and accreditation issues?

  6. #6
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Seifert View Post
    Here is a simple salt calculator. I have only used a drop style test kit. I used one drop increments instead of two drops as stated in the instructions. A salt meter may be more accurate. I have found the more times you do the test and average the results, the closer you will get to the actual volume as determined by a flow meter.
    Comments about the notes in the calculator document:

    Salt at 0.1% already detoxifies nitrite.

    Salt should be added in no more than 0.15% increments if possible to avoid shocking the fish with large salt changes.

    If the salt changes are made in 0.15% or so increments per 12 hours or so, koi and goldfish can easily tolerate up to 1.0 weight % salt concentration.

    An electronic meter based on conductivity is a lot more accurate in measuring changing salt concentration than any drop test kit. So a more accurate volume measurement will be made using an electronic meter for salinity.

    A similar chart can be made for measuring volume by baking soda addition and measuring KH before and after baking soda addition, if adding salt to the pond is a concern.

  7. #7
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Hello Roddy . . .

    In a post on another board you quoted from an upcoming Koi Nations magazine article of yours:

    Please notice that only 0.25 pounds of salt per 100 gallons protects carp from nitrite poisoning even at 65 ppm nitrite concentration.

    That being the case, should ponders bother to increase salt to the .1% level when dealing with single digit nitrite readings during typical New Pond Syndrome and QT situations?

  8. #8
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Hello Roddy . . .

    In a post on another board you quoted from an upcoming Koi Nations magazine article of yours:

    Please notice that only 0.25 pounds of salt per 100 gallons protects carp from nitrite poisoning even at 65 ppm nitrite concentration.

    That being the case, should ponders bother to increase salt to the .1% level when dealing with single digit nitrite readings during typical New Pond Syndrome and QT situations?

    ).25 pounds of salt per 100 gallons is actually only 0.03% salt, which does protect koi from nitrite poisoning even when nitrite is as much as 65 ppm.

    The rule of thumb when protecting fish from nitrite poisoning is to have chloride ion present at at least 10 times the nitrite level to avoid a significant nitrite uptake through the gills.

    So let's assume that nitrite levels during cycling of a new pond hits 10 to 20 ppm levels, which is often the actual situation.

    Let's assume worse case, 20 ppm nitrite for a couple of weeks.

    10 times 20 ppm is 200 ppm chloride ion needed, another way to write 200 ppm is 0.02%. So we need 0.02% chloride concentration, and sodium chloride is 60% salt, so we need 0.02%/0.6 = 0.033% salt to protect really well from 20 ppm nitrite levels.

    0.033% salt is achieved by adding 0.27 pounds salt per 100 gallons of water, or 2.7 pounds salt per 1000 gallons of water.

    If no salt is added, we cannot safely assume there is sufficient chloride ions in the water to protect from nitrite poisoning.

    So my preference is to tell ponders to add a pound of salt per 100 gallons during cycling of a new pond to protect from nitrite poisoning, which is enough to protect from nitrite poisoning even if the nitrite gets to 100 ppm (which almost never happens anyway).

    I hope that answers the question in sufficient detail.

    Like I said in the other public post, the aquaculture research paper I quoted showed that 0.25 pounds of salt per 100 gallons gave complete protection to carp (koi) from 65 ppm maintained nitrite concentration for a few weeks test period. But 0.025 pounds salt per 100 gallons gave deaths of carp at 65 ppm nitrite levels in only 24 hours.

    So do some protection when nitrites are there, but there is no need to add large quantities of salt.

  9. #9
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Thanks, Roddy. I've saved that last bit with the other one.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    That being the case, should ponders bother to increase salt to the .1% level when dealing with single digit nitrite readings during typical New Pond Syndrome and QT situations?[/quote]
    When my fish came in from Japan I was told by the breeder to bring salt level
    up to 3.5 pounds per 100 gal . Then reduce over several days and leave at one lb for at least a few weeks .
    Regards
    Eugene

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