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Thread: Do you use Potassium Permanganate?

  1. #51
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    PP will burn out the organics and pheromones as well but what it will not do is give the water the quality that a change-out with fresh water would have. Add to that the nitrates, added GH and other chems that may remain along with any components formed from the PP dose.

    I suppose if you lived on Grand Crocodile Island needed to truck in your water for each change out and the ship with the water for your island had sank (did I mention men from Mars yet?) Then this would be an alternative. But I believe in most cases the PP and the power needed top pump the water from one vessel and into another and then back again would cost more than the water you where treating. So what is the point?

    B.Scott
    Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

  2. #52
    Tosai greerhw's Avatar
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    I haven't been here for a few years, but was asked to help a person that was having some water problems. Now I know why I left, same old dead horses laying around, just more of them. See ya in another 3 years.

    Harry

  3. #53
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    Don't let the door hit you on the way out

  4. #54
    Tategoi moikoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Grant, my point was simply to suggest that if it isn't wise to subject a GC to maintenance PP treatments, why would it be ok (health wise) to subject a pond grade koi to such? I simply do not get that logic.

    That logic is typically also used by the same folks that consider their koi to be their "beloved pets" and again, I simply do not understand the logic of subjecting a "loved one" to those risks when they do not have to be.

    Steve
    agree,i don't own any show quality koi,but i still haven't use any chemicals yet.

  5. #55
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Grant, my point was simply to suggest that if it isn't wise to subject a GC to maintenance PP treatments, why would it be ok (health wise) to subject a pond grade koi to such? I simply do not get that logic.

    That logic is typically also used by the same folks that consider their koi to be their "beloved pets" and again, I simply do not understand the logic of subjecting a "loved one" to those risks when they do not have to be.

    Steve
    Absolutely. ...A rather ordinary koi grown well to a large size with vibrant good health is quite an impressive creature. This whole PP thing is about people wanting to do less work and avoid expenditures, but who nonetheless want to keep koi. It has nothing to do with raising koi to be the magnificent animals even the ordinary one can be.

  6. #56
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    They could avoid even more expenditures by building a proper koi pond from the get-go.

    The cheapest pond is the one you don't have (or need) to rebuild.

  7. #57
    Fry
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    Quote Originally Posted by greerhw View Post
    I haven't been here for a few years, but was asked to help a person that was having some water problems. Now I know why I left, same old dead horses laying around, just more of them. See ya in another 3 years.

    Harry
    Do let the door hit you on the way out, Foxtrot Oscar Harry

  8. #58
    Daihonmei
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    How The Internet Screwed Up The Koi Hobby By James P Reilly


    There once was a quirky past time called the koi hobby. It incorporated a handful of determined souls that were completely fascinated by the look, movement, color and 'idea' of koi. Koi were less expensive and less likely to survive in the water garden ponds of that day. The hobby was very young and there was much to do and learn. From that focus and determination came the split from the water garden world and working koi pond. Maybe more important was the development of a koi culture of understanding a distinctly Japanese esthetic and appreciation of a fish as living art.
    Enter stage left the dominating water garden population and the 'koi lite' folks via the numerous water garden bulletin and message boards. Worse, soon came the hordes of water garden product salesman who quickly obfuscated the home made working koi product\ designs with expensive, and often poorly designed and poorly tested, off the shelf products. In conjunction, early boards began to find remedies for all ills in some bottle. And like a gyro spinning off its axis, we soon saw the grounded koi culture flipped into a newbie dominated version of water gardening meets the fish aquarium.
    The good news is, as we shake off this last assault on the koi hobby, fewer and fewer of the pop culture newbies still have a credible voice.
    Things like electrodes in the water that 'change' nitrate into nothingness, 24 hour cycling of bacteria, kitty litter additives, ozone compensation techniques, PP and more PP, magical bio-media, ect are pretty much a former fad as dated as lime stripped bell bottoms and Skinny ties.
    Thank heaven we can all finally see that adding pond water full of chlorines, adding a dechlor and then adding PP and finally hydrogen peroxide is not forward thinking! Dumb ideas never really worked their way into the core of the koi hobby and now thru experience, even the slightly burned newbie in the actual koi hobby has migrated away from silly stuff in mass. There will always be a few of course who curse the darkness and refuse the candle- human nature at it's most frustrating..

  9. #59
    Oyagoi
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    Unfortunately JR's historical perspective is not far from the mark. I can see now where I went wrong....instead of trying to refine my koi breeding skills and spending money on acquiring better and better breeding stock, I should have been manufacturing and selling snake oils, new fangled filtration stuff, magnets and electrodes, etc.

    Oh well.

    I use PP regularly, almost always in conjunction with a diagnosis of trichodina found on fish fresh from the mud. Sometimes for other things like a quick sterilization of tanks or equipment, maybe to oxidize anaerobic "last of the pond water to drain out" before it goes into the creek.

    I keep about 300 pounds of it around the shop, so much because I bought it cheap (penny a pound). Even so, with so much on hand, the "use from container" only holds one pound and lasts about 6 months.

    So far, after 30 years, I've found most folks still want to do the expedient, cheap, easy thing and not the correct, difficult and expensive thing.

    So here I sit in front of my box, home and farm seriously wounded but intact, no money, very little market, and precious few prospects for improvement. Meanwhile, my wife out of work (state hospital in Galveston closed indefinitely), friends devestated (almost all small businesses in the area, like mine and those of my friends), some without a home, and our gooberment spending trillions to "bail out" wealthy Wall Streeters, but leave behind hurricane devestated Main Streeters. Go figure.

    Nobody coming to bail me and my freinds out, and this storm has most likely been the final death blow to my project and to many others.

    Brett
    Brett

  10. #60
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    How the Internet Saved My Koi Hobby by Grant Cusworth

    There once was a guy who dug a hole. He filled that hole with a chunk of plastic and went to the nearest nursurey to buy some koi fish for that hole. At that nursery he met a very well intentioned, but very poorly educated man who was to serve as his mentor in koi keeping. He sold quite a few koi to our fellow, who never really managed to keep anyone healthy or alive for any period of time. After countless hours in the nursery talking to the staff there he was quite sure it wasn't the pond that was the problem. Well, his fish continued to get sick, so in a last ditch effort he jumped on his computer and looked for answers. He stumbled across a Koi forum based in the UK, as well as Koi Bito. He started reading and reading... Then he started digging, and digging... I'm pretty sure that if the internet hadn't come along, our hero would have filled in his little preform pond and bought a guinea pig long ago...

    The internet has it's faults for sure. But for some, it's been a life saver. And for me now, it's an outlet for a guy who doesn't have any koi kichi to talk to nearby.

    Blessing and a curse I suppose...

    Grant


    P.S. - Hang in there Brett, I'm sorry to hear of the trouble you're having...

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