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Thread: Do you use Potassium Permanganate?

  1. #61
    Oyagoi gspotmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbreeder View Post
    Unfortunately JR's historical perspective is not far from the mark. I can see now where I went wrong....instead of trying to refine my koi breeding skills and spending money on acquiring better and better breeding stock, I should have been manufacturing and selling snake oils, new fangled filtration stuff, magnets and electrodes, etc.

    Oh well.

    I use PP regularly, almost always in conjunction with a diagnosis of trichodina found on fish fresh from the mud. Sometimes for other things like a quick sterilization of tanks or equipment, maybe to oxidize anaerobic "last of the pond water to drain out" before it goes into the creek.

    I keep about 300 pounds of it around the shop, so much because I bought it cheap (penny a pound). Even so, with so much on hand, the "use from container" only holds one pound and lasts about 6 months.

    So far, after 30 years, I've found most folks still want to do the expedient, cheap, easy thing and not the correct, difficult and expensive thing.

    So here I sit in front of my box, home and farm seriously wounded but intact, no money, very little market, and precious few prospects for improvement. Meanwhile, my wife out of work (state hospital in Galveston closed indefinitely), friends devestated (almost all small businesses in the area, like mine and those of my friends), some without a home, and our gooberment spending trillions to "bail out" wealthy Wall Streeters, but leave behind hurricane devestated Main Streeters. Go figure.

    Nobody coming to bail me and my freinds out, and this storm has most likely been the final death blow to my project and to many others.

    Brett
    Brett,
    Hang in there. I know how it feels. My long journey started two years ago.
    Michael

  2. #62
    Sansai WayneB's Avatar
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    For those that are intrested...please feel free to leave comments and suggestions.



    Potassium Permanganate Treatment
    By Wayne Barker


    Potassium is a granular powder which turns the water purple when activated. Potassium is used to treat fish that have parasites, or have bacterial infections, red spots, fin rot, sliminess of skin, ulcers, fungal lesions. Some Koi keepers believe in doing a precautionary potassium pond treatment before spring and before winter.

    It is important to note that Potassium Permanganate is very toxic to aquatic organisms if not used correctly and may cause long term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.
    Potassium and Hydrogen Peroxide can be bought from any chemist without an prescription. Please note that it is sometimes a good idea to buy more hydrogen peroxide than what you need just incase you make your potassium pond mixture to strong. The potassium treatments are for the more advanced koi keeper, as it requires constant supervision during the treatments.


    The potassium pond treatment:
    The pond treatment is used to kill parasites on the fish and in the water body of the pond. Potassium oxidizes organic material, including the surfaces of bacterial sores (ulcers) and the parasites that cause them. Once it's spent it's energy on the pond and parasites, the potassium turns a Orange, brown colour and can be removed with a water change or with hydrogen peroxide. Large amounts of organics in a pond will cause the potassium to spend its energy on oxidizing the organics and turn brown prematurely.
    To do the potassium pond treatment you will need the following:

      • 6-8 hours of open time.
      • 3g Potassium Permanganate per 1000L of water.
      • 20ml Hydrogen Peroxide 30% per 1000L of water.
    1. Put on some old clothes and always protect your hands and face.
    2. Switch of all UV Lights, Protein Skimmers and ozonators.
    3. If possible bypass your bio filter as the potassium will affect the bacteria in it. If you are bypassing your bio filter during the treatment you have to repeat the some procedure 3 times with 3 days in between.
    4. Switch on air / oxygen equipment like air pumps, venturis and waterfalls during the treatment.
    5. Fill a 5L-10L container with pond water.
    6. Measure of 3g Potassium Permanganate per 1000L and add it to the container.
    7. Stir it very well, note that the Potassium Permanganate will stain your clothes and skin when it comes in contact with it, so please keep clear.
    8. Add the contents to the pond either from a venturi or at a waterfall location.
    9. DO NOT throw the remaining crystals out of the container. Add more pond water to the same container and stir the existing crystals.
    10. Try to maintain the treatment for at least 6-8 hours.
    11. Every hour take a glass or see through container and fill it with pond water. The pond water must have a pink tint, colour to it.
    12. If the water turns orange or brown add the water in the container from (9) and repeat until the water turns pink or until there is no more crystal left in the container.
    13. If you can't keep the water pink for 6-8 hours you can add another 1.5 grams of potassium per 1000 liters pond water, but keep an eye on the fish.
    14. Note that during this treatment you cannot take a chance and leave your fish alone for longer than 30 minutes. It is normal for them to look unhappy, breath a little fast and appear somewhat listless while under treatment. They should still react if you approach the pond. If they do not move when approached, wave your had over them. If they still do not move, it means it is time to end the treatment as they are starting to suffer.
    15. When you decide to end the treatment, add Hydrogen Peroxide 30% at a rate of 20 ml per 1000 liters of pond water. The water will start to clear within about 10 to 30 minutes.

      Chlorine from tap water, Dechlorinate and hydrogen peroxide in the water will inactivate the treatment (for 2 days) so do not do any top ups from a water source that contains chlorine during this time.
    The potassium dip

    The potassium dip is used to kill all parasites and bacteria that may be on a fish. This method is usually used by koi keepers after taking possesion of a new fish. This method is prefered above the pond treatment by certain koi keepers as it does not require as much time as the pond treatment.
    To do the potassium dip you will need the following:

      • 5 minutes per koi.
      • 1 x plastic container for the potassium. The container should be deep enough so that water will cover the whole body of the fish.
      • 1 x plastic container for clean water. The container should be deep enough so that water will cover the whole body of the fish.
      • 1g Potassium Permanganate per 10L of water - very important!! DO NOT OVERDOSE!
      • Stop watch.
    1. Put on some old clothes and always protect your hands and face.
    2. Take the first container and add the water. Make sure that you know the exact amount of water in the container.
    3. Take the second container and plain water to it. If you can add a airstone it will help the koi.
    4. Add the potassium crystals 1g per 10L to the water in the first container and stir well.
    5. Place the koi in the first container and start your stop watch while watching the fish.
    6. Smaller koi requires less time in the solution that bigger fish.
    7. One should endevour to keep the fish in the potassium solution for no less than 5 minutes. Bigger koi can be left up to 8 minutes.
    8. if the koi starts to become stressed and jumps, remove it immediatly from 1st container and place it in the second container.
    9. Wash all the potassium off while wathcing the fish for another 10 minutes before returning it to the pond.
    First Aid Measures:
    After Inhalation: Expose to fresh Air. Give artificial respiration. Consult a physician
    After Skin Contact: Wash off immediately with water for about 15-20 mins. Remove stained clothing. Consult a physician.
    After ingestion: If swallowed do not induce vomiting (due to risk of perforation!). Drink plenty of water. Consult a physician.
    After eye contact: flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes with eyelid held wide open. Consult an Ophthalmologist immediately.

    Medical - Treating koi with Potassium Permanganate

  3. #63
    Daihonmei
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    Hi Brett, I also use PP for protozoa types- thing is, I have not seen a protoza type in my main pond since the early 1990s! My PP stash is like a cake of rock!
    On a sad note of my own, I lost my Dainichi sanke that you brought in for me, this morning. I guess that was a good 6-8 years ago? Just dead- not a mark or a physical symptom. She has not really been herself since I bred her this past spring. Very sad, I loved that fish!

    If you would like to broker some fish for me from Mano, I would be interested in a fish or two from that same breeding. Sansai would be good. But Nisai is OK as well. Kuchibeni is a plus and females only. Best, Jim R

  4. #64
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    On a sad note of my own, I lost my Dainichi sanke that you brought in for me, this morning. I guess that was a good 6-8 years ago? Just dead- not a mark or a physical symptom. She has not really been herself since I bred her this past spring. Very sad, I loved that fish!
    Jim

    So sorry to hear you lost your Sanke, I know how you are feeling..

    Nancy

  5. #65
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Oh, JR, I recall a photo you posted. My condolences. ...any passable offspring from the spawn?

  6. #66
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about your Sanke JR.

    Grant

  7. #67
    Oyagoi mstrseed's Avatar
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    Brett, sorry for what has happened to you...............words would not do any good at this point.
    Love ya brother..................

  8. #68
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    Sorry, I totally disagree with the approach of just adding Xppm of PP. We put in PP in order to get the ORP levels to the 500-550mV range that is oxidative enough and long enough to kill parasites in the pond system, and on the koi, without frying their gills.

    You can not know if the water is not quite hot enoug, just right, or too hot......and for how long...without using a calibrated ORP meter. Using an ORP meter we can have emphirical measurements before, during, and after the PP treatment. No guesswork and therefore minimum risk for the fish.

    In the States we can get an ORP meter that can be calibrated for around $100. It, like a microscope, should be part of all koi keeping kits.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  9. #69
    Nisai Bobby's Avatar
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    In the States we can get an ORP meter that can be calibrated for around $100. It, like a microscope, should be part of all koi keeping kits.
    Hi Mca, Do you have more details on your ORP meter please. Make, model and company that I can import from?
    I have used one by Milwauke and find it to be very unreliable.

  10. #70
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    You can get an American Marine Pinpoint ORP meter from many sources on the Internet. Here is one.

    American Marine Pinpoint ORP Monitor, Single Item Monitors & Controllers > Monitor Equipment > Testing Equipment > Saltwater Aquarium Supplies


    Some of the advertisers on the site might carry them.


    I has a Hanna...they said was factory calibrated. That is OK for awhile....but not so good many months later. With the Pinpoint you can clean the probe and calibrate the meter as needed with a small packet of cleaning/calibration fluid.

    Is it accurate? Not like real lab equipment.....but far better than adding Xgrams of PP and hoping for the best.

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