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Thread: The 7th China National Koi Show

  1. #11
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Yi: I am sure the breeder of the 50bu champion is deservedly proud. If it is female, she is rather thin, but has wonderful bone structure and body line. If it is male, which I would guess it is, the shiroji is remarkable.

  2. #12
    Daihonmei
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    How does the organizer keep the judges from picking their own dealer supplied fish?

    JR

  3. #13
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    How does the organizer keep the judges from picking their own dealer supplied fish?

    JR
    That was a very good point and as a matter of fact, there have always been negative opinions. But I suppose it is always difficult, no matter where you are and what shows you go to, to be absolutely fair in such highly subjective games.

  4. #14
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 西湖上 View Post
    That was a very good point and as a matter of fact, there have always been negative opinions. But I suppose it is always difficult, no matter where you are and what shows you go to, to be absolutely fair in such highly subjective games.
    Not if one uses ZNA Judges. As highly trained amateurs they have no ties to the web of dealers and breeders.

    As such, they are the antidote to highly political Shinkokai-style judging.

  5. #15
    Tosai pbng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Not if one uses ZNA Judges. As highly trained amateurs they have no ties to the web of dealers and breeders.

    As such, they are the antidote to highly political Shinkokai-style judging.
    pls allow me to share one point....
    For any judge, whether they are breeder/dealer related or not...all individual will have their preferences and professional judgment. It is always difficult for a third party to say 'fair' or 'unfair'......altho there is always this sensitive issues of 'conflict of interest'.

    In fact, many of the professionals I know, they can almost identify which adult fish belong to which breeder/bloodlines. And many of them have prior encounter with those GC contestors when the fish were stil nisai/sansai.

  6. #16
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbng View Post
    In fact, many of the professionals I know, they can almost identify which adult fish belong to which breeder/bloodlines
    Very interesting.

    I'm interested to know where you live -- and I'm curious to understand what these professionals (that you know) have to do with amateur ZNA judges?

  7. #17
    Tosai pbng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Very interesting.

    I'm interested to know where you live -- and I'm curious to understand what these professionals (that you know) have to do with amateur ZNA judges?
    Hi,

    I'm from Singapore.
    I'm not familiar with amateur ZNA judges here.

    Over here, we are a relatively small community, whereby we have about 6-7 local dealers here only. So if anyone has bring in a very good GC potential fish, the whole community will probably get to know it.
    here is a link to a recent show.
    Koi Friends :: View topic - 13th Singapore Koi Show

  8. #18
    Daihonmei
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    Well I would suggest that you are either 'transcended to a higher plain' or are quite naive? In the event you are unaware, there is a lot of business and money at stake in the koi business. And , hold on now as this may also be news- corruption is to be avoided at all costs in a koi show. It is the difference as to whether the results are credible or not. A real competition verses a trade show commercial, if you will.

    You do not get 6 high end businessmen on a plane, away from there livelihood and into a foreign country without some motivation. The motivation is to develop new markets. This can be done as a trade organization ( at best) or for direct personal advantage ( the worst case scenario).

    There is NO QUESTION that breeders have a far superior eye than amateur ZNA judges. The judges are the students of the breeders after all. But the motives are pure in the amatuer eye.

    To be clear, I have seen professionals judge with a pure heart and eye. And I have personally witnessed professionals steer the outcome of a show.

    And there is a third ground here. I have seen showa breeders gravitate to showas that were not their own. They just love showa and have dedicated a chunk of their life to showa. In this regard the lowly amateur judge shines as the true professional as they are trained to standards and varieties and give equal weighting to all varieties- some times to a fault!

    And I have no real problem with foxes watching the hen house. As long as everyone understands what's going on.
    In truth, most amateur clubs go through the phase of wanting the very best eye to judge their shows. Its an innocent phase and most clubs pass out of it over time. This being a fairly new show ( the 7th show) I accept that this might be the case. But a lot of shows are permanently corrupted by the business angle and are only posing as amateur clubs. Meanwhile the 'right' fish are picked to win. One joke among amateurs that is often repeated at these type shows here in the USA, is " I think that winner was chosen in a plane somewhere over the Pacific!"

    Singapore has a ZNA chapter. I have been out of touch with them but I think Dr Cheng might still be President? He can be reached at the Thomson Medical center 339 Thomson Road, Singapore 307677. There is also a private member group that connects directly to Japan. And of course, Richard Tan is probably the most well known of Singapore members. And very close to Sakai of Hiroshima these days.

    there is also a Hong Kong, Taiwan ( three actually) and Malaysia chapter.

    Without China proper tapping into this reality, it will be subject to internal dealer warfare and factions. I wish them the best as they sort this out.

    JR

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