Koi Dealer Best Health Practices Certification Program

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR There The second point is-when is treating the fish directly a medical act? As Spike identified early on, this definition is state regulated ( thank you horse people!). In many states, the simple answer is when you use controlled perscription drugs without the guidance of a liscensed vet or when you invade the skin of an animal ( cut, stitch, probe). JR

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond I would really suggest that any KHA that has concerns about liability should consult with an attorney in their jurisdiction and not rely on the musings of hobbyists posting on the chat boards, no matter how well intentioned the hobbyists. Now I know how it must sound to the koi judges when I talk about koi.

I think that was already pointed out by a koi judge

[cppond]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. I think that was already pointed out by a koi judge

That doesn't make up for the rest of it.

Ask MikeM why the whole suing your club thing doesn't "hold water" particularly since individuals are not members of the AKCA and KHA's aren't sponsored by individual clubs.

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond That doesn't make up for the rest of it. Ask MikeM why the whole suing your club thing doesn't "hold water" particularly since individuals are not members of the AKCA and KHA's aren't sponsored by individual clubs.

last time I checked, I was an individual and was a member of AKCA, As each member of our club is also a member of the AKCA.

I also believe, maybe I am wrong but all KHA's have to belong to an AKCA club, and that makes them all members of AKCA.

[MikeM]

One of the fascinating aspects of law practice is that lawyers who litigate rarely say what the law is. They identify arguments and give only their estimate of the chances of success. It is the transactional lawyers who never go to court that issue legal opinions.

[MCA]

Quote: last time I checked, I was an individual and was a member of AKCA, As each member of our club is also a member of the AKCA. I also believe, maybe I am wrong but all KHA's have to belong to an AKCA club, and that makes them all members of AKCA.

This is where AKCA is VERY differernt from ZNA. ZNA is one club with local branches. AKCA is very loose affiilation of independent local clubs.

In ZNA you as an individual join ZNA either indepently (fax over your credit card info) or via an existing loca ZNA Chapter (which is supposed to have at least 25 ZNA members) or a ZNA Friendship Club (which is supposed to have at least 15 ZNA members).

For AKCA most individuals join an AKCA affiliated local club. That local club joins the AKCA affilation....not the indviduals in the local club. If you chech the AKCA bylaws, they do allow for an individual to join AKCA directly....this is in cases where folks live where there are no AKCA local clubs. So if you really are a direct AKCA member....you are a very rare case. Most folks are only members of their local club.


AKCA Bylaws:

ARTICLE III
MEMBERSHIP
Any club or organization whose primary interest is in Koi culture shall be eligible for membership in this
Corporation. Membership shall not be construed as surrender of autonomy or in any way interfering into the
affairs of the individual clubs or organizations. No one may become a member as an individual except in those
cases of membership as an Honorary or Associate Member.
Section 1: Club definition. A club is an organization governed by a constitution and/or By-Laws with duly elected
officers holding regular meetings and meeting all membership requirements.
Section 2: Classes of Membership.
A. Active Member: Active members shall consist of Koi clubs in the US and Canada in good standing
with this Corporation.
B. Associate Member: Associate members shall be any koi hobbyist who sincerely desires to
support and participate in AKCA and who is not a member of an AKCA club because no club
exists within one hundred (100) miles of the Associated Member’s home or place of business.
They can attend AKCA meetings but will not be allowed to vote or hold office. Associate
Members may be approved by the AKCA Board of Directors with the recommendations of the
Membership Committee.
C. Honorary Members: Honorary Members shall be individuals who have been recommended
By the Membership Committee and who have been approved by the Board of Directors to
Receive the status of Honorary Member as recognition of their service and commitment to the
Functions, but will not be eligible to vote or hold office except as they are members of a club in good
standing. There will be no dues connected with this title.
D. Professional Membership: Professional Membership is defined as any individual or
Organization engaged in the sale of Koi or Koi products related to the koi hobby for
Commercial gain. This membership does not carry a vote or eligibility for elected office.
Section 3: Application and Election to Membership. Application for membership into this Corporation must be
made in writing to the Membership Committee. The Board of Directors will approve or disapprove membership
with recommendation of the Membership Committee. When accepted, dues and all other necessary fees will be
accepted by the Chief Financial Officer.
Section 4: Membership Dues: Active Membership dues shall be $100.00 per year, which includes general liability
insurance, for individual member clubs. Associate Membership dues shall be $25.00 per year,
does not include insurance. Professional Membership dues shall be $240.00 and does not include insurance, but
does include a one line “Name” listing in “Koi USA”. Dues are payable in July of each year. If dues are not paid
with three (3) months or 90 days of the billing date, that club will not be in good standing and will be suspended
from AKCA membership, voting powers, general liability insurance, Koi USA reduced subscription rates and
dropped from Koi USA club listing. A reinstatement fee of fifty ($50) dollars will be assessed. Honorary Members
will pay no dues.
Section 5: Change of Dues. A two-thirds vote of the voting members of the Board of Directors representing all
clubs in good standing shall be required in order to change dues. All member clubs shall be given the opportunity to

vote. All votes must be received within ninety (90) days of the question.

[cppond]

Nancy

Below is the relevant portion of the AKCA By-Laws. The theory behind the general policy of club immunity/liability is based on a relationship that creates almost a singularity of identity. I don't believe that would exist in the sort of loose "association" you are talking about. Again, I advise any KHA that has questions about these legalities to discuss them with an attorney in their own jurisdiction.

Edit - Cross posted with MCA.

Quote: ARTICLE III MEMBERSHIP Any club or organization whose primary interest is in Koi culture shall be ligible for membership in this Corporation. Membership shall not be construed as surrender of autonomy or in any way interfering into the affairs of the individual clubs or organizations. No one may become a member as an individual except in those cases of membership as an Honorary or Associate Member.

[JasPR]

I know next to nothing about the law regarding liability- I admit that freely. But I do have instincts and I have been asked to be an expert witness in three law suits filed against dealers and pond designers. One case involved the death of a collection against a guy who had installed a pond and then recommended a gardener to treat the fish he had GIVEN to the owner as part of the pond construction. The owner added several other fish brokered by the same gardener and the entire lot died based on the dealer's phone call advise regaridng a treatment that was then applied by the gardener/broker of the fish. The entire group ( pond installer, Gardener broker and telephone adviser0 were all named. The doctor who funded the law suit was a bit of a nut and out for blood. I declined the offer after reading the details.
Two very well known hobbyists ( one reads this board) were threatened with legal action after helping newbies a few years back. Maybe he would like to come on and talk about the threat.
The point is, 'stuff' happens. And there is risk involved with 'helping' strangers. It is the classic reason why doctors won't stop at traffic accidents and good samaritans will not help those in need. Anyone can sue anyone--- anyone who does not believe that, I have a faulty gas heater I would be willing to sell them. JR

[JasPR]

One additional remark and a slight correction to MCA's otherwise dead accurate protrayal of ZNA membership. You can apply for a 'membership' in ZNA thru the home office but you are really just a magazine subscriber as you get none of the other benefits of ZNA membership when you are a private member. No voting rights, no ability to attend seminars, private teaching/learning sessions with judges, no buddy system for emergency pond issues, no ability to enter the judging program and no associations with other ZNA members, etc.. As a fraternal organization, the latter are reasons for becoming a regional chapter member, the magazine simple comes for 'free' as a dues paying member of a chapter.

This summer ( early August, dates to be announced) the MAKC ZNA chapter will have a teaching/judging seminar for ZNA members at Nisai koi farm in Southern New Jersey. The ZNA members will be encouraged to judge fish and then the ZNA judges will offer their opinions and the reasons for their choices. ( I will be one judge and Art Lembke and Nicole Lembke will also be judges). The breeder's point of view will be given by Matt McCann, the actual breeder of the fish. You know what they say, " a picture is worth a thousand words". If that is true, then--- "a live judging seminar is worth a thousand hours on the Internet trying to learn the many details of koi appreciation".
If you are a ZNA member of any chapter ( our regional chapters on the East Coast are - MAKC/ZNA, Potomac ZNA and the Southern ZNA Association in Florida and surrounding states) please join us as part of the 'perks' of being a ZNA chapter member.

JR

(* this is not an officially certified ZNA judging seminar and will not count as a continuing education credit towards local judge certification)