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Thread: What is meant by good skin quality?

  1. #21
    Tosai
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    Dec 2007
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    Hi,

    Just taggin along, often I see nisai that is over 50cm, I suppose the body is growing, but the beni is lighter orangy color... Is that consider a weak beni, or because it is growing too fast and the color hasn't filled in?

    When you mention a small isolated spot of beni on the body, is this a sign of beni that will vanish/dissapear later on?

  2. #22
    Jumbo
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    Jan 2007
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    [quote=mingaun;108972]Super Kindai

    Why do you say that "C" is suitable for koi show? Its head pattern looks heavy though, or are you only referring to the beni quality?


    Now, we talk about pattern....
    (these are not belong to me)

  3. #23
    Nisai
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    Feb 2008
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    Super Kindai,

    I dont mean to go off topic here because this thread is not so much about pattern but i cant help but notice a lot of kohaku seem to have a heavy head pattern. It is like the whole head is almost covered with beni. Is this a trend that breeders are going for?

    Mingaun

  4. #24
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_iwanto View Post
    When you mention a small isolated spot of beni on the body, is this a sign of beni that will vanish/dissapear later on?
    That is what i want to know as well. Also if it means that the other beni on the body is weak too. Is this a desirable pattern on a koi?

    Mingaun

  5. #25
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    An isolated spot of Hi is a distraction, not necessarily a sign that the Hi is going to fade. If there are single scales with Hi at the edge of a step, particularly the bottom edges, it is a possible indication of fading that should be examined more closely.

    There does seem to be more Kohaku and Sanke with Hi spreading over the head to a greater extent than is desired with classic patterning. It is not because the breeders are seeking that result. Rather, the emphasis on quality of pigment over pattern allows such fish to be kept for show. In some lines the spreading Hi is linked to the depth and thickness of the pigment, so they come together as a package. The classic pattern standards have not gone out of favor, and a koi with both a classic pattern and quality pigment on a superb body will always be a crowd-pleaser (and impress the judges). But I do not believe the strict standards of the past will return. People are now more open to appreciating the distinctiveness of an unusual pattern. The old pattern standards were in some respects an easy way to distinguish quality from the diffused pigment of long ago, but ceased to serve that purpose well before the contemporary de-emphasis of pattern. Pattern standards became a strait-jacket, so the strictness had to be discarded for koi to continue to advance.

  6. #26
    Nisai
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    Feb 2008
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    Thanks Mike. Just what i wanted to know

    Mingaun

  7. #27
    Tosai
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    [quote=MikeM;108999]An isolated spot of Hi is a distraction, not necessarily a sign that the Hi is going to fade. If there are single scales with Hi at the edge of a step, particularly the bottom edges, it is a possible indication of fading that should be examined more closely.

    Hi Mike,

    Is it possible to show us a pic of "single scales with Hi at the edge of a step, particularly the bottom edges, it is a possible indication of fading that should be examined more closely." I think that would help noobies like myself a great deal.. Thanksss

  8. #28
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I will check my photos this evening. What I am referring to is fading of Hi along the edges, which often leaves isolated scales on which the Hi has not fully disappeared. There can also be a 'hanging fringe' effect, which at first may look like maruzome edges, but on close observation, you see that the individual scales at the furthest edge are not 100% colored. (In writings from a few decades back, there was comment that maruzome kiwa was bad because koikeepers of the day were only beginning to understand the difference between a genetic maruzome kiwa in high quality koi and the temporary maruzome effect of fading Hi in low quality koi.)

  9. #29
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    If you look at this picture I think you'll get the idea. There are weak areas on some or the edges, and a few within the hi plates. Still a good fish in many respects, but I'll have a long wait to see how the hi plates develop. Where the beni is strong it is VERY strong, but in the weak spots it is easy to see.

  10. #30
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Good example, Papa, of one to be concerned about.

    Here are 3 Sanke Mat McCann supplied to me for learning purposes a year ago as approx. 7-inch tosai. They are now in 16" to 18" range. First, focus on the top fish, the Sanke with the round spot on his side. (Yes, it is male.) Along the edge of the rear-most step you can see a "fringe" of scales. If you look very closely (especially in the second photo), just above each of the scales forming the hanging fringe on the rear-most step, you can see white in the next row of scales. That's white, not a reflection. Mat predicted a year ago that this is what would occur. The fish has perhaps two years to go, but probably less. The other heavily white one is another male showing Hi very high up on his side. Query: Has it stabilized such that the Hi will remain pretty much as you see it now? If you wanted a male Bekko, which of these two would you select?

    ...BTW, the third one, the long skinny one with heavy Hi, is female. Different lesson for another day.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What is meant by good skin quality?-cfks-2008-028.jpg   What is meant by good skin quality?-cfks-2008-029.jpg  

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