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Thread: german scaled or "dragon scaled" koi

  1. #1
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    german scaled or "dragon scaled" koi

    marketing tool by those on ebay to sell their fish or what? Are any german scaled koi valued by true collectors, or are they just considered cull material?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Not really.... You'll not see anything on the Japanese breeders who focus on 'dragon scale' koi. Guess why. But there is the occasional rare individual with scalation balanced in size and symetry, even lines, no stray scales and excellent form and pigment. Can make an impression. You'll not find them on Ebay. You'll hardly ever find one at a name dealer.

    Forget the oddities among koi. As a beginner, enjoy the metallics, etc., but think about getting one Kohaku that is as good as you are comfortable spending.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei
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    There are three kinds of doitsu

    1) the kagami goi- Also known as a mirror carp, this is the nishikigoi with three rows of doitsu scales on an otherwise scaleless body. One dorsal row and on on each side of the koi running along the lateral line. It is the most valuable of the doitsu types but still not as valued as a wagoi ( scaled carp). You can find this doitsu type in all varieties.

    2) the Kawa goi- This is the 'leather carp' and not of much value but acceptable in certain varieties.

    3) the Kabuto goi- this is the 'armored carp' and considered a junk fish and not a show fish under any circumstances. This is the fish that is sometimes called a dragon koi and is best purchased ' by the pound' , as opposed to the piece.

    - JR

  4. #4
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    For illustration purposes only, here are two pix of our armor scaled doitsu ochiba shigure named George:

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails german scaled or "dragon scaled" koi-dsc02326.jpg  

  5. #5
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    Don, how much is George by the pound?




































    Sorry, I couldn't help myself, JR encouraged me.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
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    Kill it!!!! My eyes, my eyes!!!!!!!! JR




    a more typical kabuto doitsu---

  7. #7
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    The reason I asked is because I have a decent looking yamabuki ogon that is armored scaled. Its quite a fat fish, has grown really well, from 6 to 12 inches last year, and at this point, I plan on keeping it to see what happens. For me, the pond is about pleasing my young 2 year old daughter, so since she likes the yellow, it's staying for now.

    Do you see what I mean? THe scales are somewhat even, although scattered, and the lines in between them are pretty interesting, at least to me. I really really don't like armored scaled fish in general. Several of my friends in town have them, and I think they are utt bugly....

    but this one catches my fancy a bit...

  8. #8
    Oyagoi mstrseed's Avatar
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    What ever floats yer boat......................







    JR,
    I liked Don's much better.............................

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    well to be serious for just a moment, an armor/ kabuto can not be a show fish. A leather can get away with being a show fish . But it is the kagami koi that is the show show fish. Why? Because much of what makes a show fish a show fish is rarity and artistic appearance. So the fish with the most ordered scales or the most artistic arrangement ( neckless arrangements) is the one most favored. Secondly, kabuto and kawa are much closer in style to the food carp. And nishikigoi is all about being a 'fancy carp'. So in the show world, typically, doitsu looses to wagoi and the other two types of doitsu loose to kagami doitsu.
    The only exception to this is when a leather can beat a kagami doitsu based on the better representation of the variety the scales ( or lack of scales) happen to be found on. A super kohaku 'in leather' will likley beat a poor kohaku in kagami scales. Think of this subjective decision as a 'sliding scale' ( pun intended) where scale ranking trades off with variety standard and level of accomplishment.
    - JR

  10. #10
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    well to be serious for just a moment, an armor/ kabuto can not be a show fish. A leather can get away with being a show fish . But it is the kagami koi that is the show show fish. Why? Because much of what makes a show fish a show fish is rarity and artistic appearance. So the fish with the most ordered scales or the most artistic arrangement ( neckless arrangements) is the one most favored. Secondly, kabuto and kawa are much closer in style to the food carp. And nishikigoi is all about being a 'fancy carp'. So in the show world, typically, doitsu looses to wagoi and the other two types of doitsu loose to kagami doitsu.
    The only exception to this is when a leather can beat a kagami doitsu based on the better representation of the variety the scales ( or lack of scales) happen to be found on. A super kohaku 'in leather' will likley beat a poor kohaku in kagami scales. Think of this subjective decision as a 'sliding scale' ( pun intended) where scale ranking trades off with variety standard and level of accomplishment.
    - JR
    Thanks so much for that bit of information! I appreciate it!

    Ethan

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