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Thread: New KHV outbreak?

  1. #1
    Jumbo farne230's Avatar
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    New KHV outbreak?

    Has anyone heard about a new KHV outbreak in Japan within the past few months?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I sure haven't....

  3. #3
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Neither have I!

  4. #4
    Oyagoi
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    Doesn't matter.

    Official response...sweep under rug, be quiet, buy with confidence.

    The recent outbreak here in Texas has sure took the rug out from under my sales. Snake bit hobbiests don;t want to buy no more fish just yet.

    There is no evidence, yet, to make a determination of where the outbreak actually came from. I know for a fact that this is being seriously investigated.

    Problem is, has been, will be, that "testing" for KHV is only one step above worthless. Even sensitive tests for antibodies can come up "negative" and the fish still be an asymptomatic carrier.

    Then you got the age old game of "fish hot potato". Each step along the way, the hot potato must be tossed quickly to the next step, before somebody gets burned. As the hot tater moves one way, money goes the other way. Once the tater gets to where its going (your pond) and expires, well, your water quality wasn't quite up to par, or your system is just not adequate, or the pH is too high, too low, too anything for that poor hot potato fish that made it all the way to the end of the journey then passed away.

    Add to that folks that advocate keeping KHV survivors, people selling KHV vaccinated fish, wholesalers mixing fish from many sources, retailers doing the same, etc. etc. ad nauseum and its a wonder any of 'em aren;t infected.

    Still, saying all that, in all these years, I've yet to witness with my own eyes a live (or dead) KHV infected koi.

    Project KHV gives some hope, a few fish breeders, dealers and others in the chain actually are not charlatans, and some hobbiests are responsible with thier collections.

    Brett
    Brett

  5. #5
    Daihonmei
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    Brett, you fret too much. How is it, that the Israeli still have koi? I mean, with them at ground zero and all and with all those vaccinated fish in such a small place, you'd think they would be extinct by now?! JR

  6. #6
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Brett, you fret too much. How is it, that the Israeli still have koi? I mean, with them at ground zero and all and with all those vaccinated fish in such a small place, you'd think they would be extinct by now?! JR
    Brett has a good point . You can not compare and use Isreal as an example simply that nearly all the production of koi is done on a few large farms .
    A completely diffrent situation in Japan especially the Nigata area as there are thousands of small farms or some just purchase fry and raise them most as a second income or hobby . The fish are then sold to wholsalers . I wonder from how many breeders Suda has fish from at any given time .
    Then there are the dealers and clients who tour around Nigata buying fish here and there all being shipped and put in the same tanks .
    On the other hand at Momotaro nets etc are kept to each greenhouse and disinfected after use . There is a foot bath you step in going in and out of each greenhouse . When bringing in new fish even the floor was sterelized by washing where some water was spilled .
    The practices in Nigata are just like unprotected sex . Surly JR if you can use Isreral as an example then unprotected sex can be used as another
    Regards
    Eugene

  7. #7
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Brett, you fret too much. How is it, that the Israeli still have koi? I mean, with them at ground zero and all and with all those vaccinated fish in such a small place, you'd think they would be extinct by now?! JR
    Nope. Even a lowly fish like the carp can eventually devise a means for survival. Extinction of the carp would also mean the extinction of the virus, two biological dead ends and not typically part of the evolutionary "plan."

    What concerns me is that we (all koi collectors, breeders, dealers, common carp farmers, and anybody having anything to do with common carps) will eventually all be held hostage by the Isrealis. Nobody can accuse them of lacking forethought. Release a live vaccine, cause all unvaccinated fish to be at risk from vaccinated fish in the marketplace, then agree to sell your super duper carp saver to everybody for whatever they are willing to pay.

    With a host (pun intended) of asymptomatic carriers that themselves are immune being released into the marketplace, you can eventually control the world carp market. The ultimate marketing program.

    With the plan to rename the virus and thereby make it considered (perceived to be) unable to exhibit latency having miserably failed, another approach became necessary.

    Last I heard the vaccination process only killed half the vaccinated fish. Maybe they'll only kill half the unvaccinated ones???

    No doubt there is a tad of animosity here, I found it particularly difficult before KHV to compete against government subsidized (with US monies) farms (also no delivery charges on the government owned airlines) in Isreal. Between them, the Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, etc. The wholesale price for a typical "junk" koi has fallen from around $3 to closer to $0.30. Meanwhile diesel is over $4, electricity is 15 cents a KWH, and fish food has tripled. Not to mention my government doesn;t give me subsidies. It gives me regulations, permitting fees, license fees, taxes, fines, and other monkey wrenches in the works.

    Try and compete on those terms and stay in business for a dozen years.

    Brett

  8. #8
    Jumbo farne230's Avatar
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    I agree Bret. Hopefully our concern about a KHV outbreak will be resolved within the next few weeks and everything will return to normal. I would suspect laws and breeder practices have improved here and in Japan regarding KHV prevention, would you say so?
    Bob

  9. #9
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I had an olde college professor, who used to chide his students by saying write like you talk. The implications was short and sweet sentences. I think he would have liked Brett. He doesn't mince words too much.......so is the KHV problem just restricted to the SW? This is the first I'm hearing....I understand what Brett is saying about not being a problem from an export country. I think it does more harm to be quiet about what's happening then it does to reveal what we know in non-liable conversation.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei
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    considering the time of year and the nature of the virus, maybe buying habits need to change with new purchases held off until mid summer and fall? Or quarantined until mid summer. By doing this, the 'fresh fish' just out of winter will explode in the hands of the wholesale community or at the breeders and not in established ponds.
    Just a thought for those planning on early spring buying. JR

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