Nozomi Young Koi Show Cancellation

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by RayJordan It is clear from reading the comments about the Dealer Best Practices Program and KHA's that many are way off base. If you care to know the facts about the Dealer Best Practices Program go to this thread and read Spike Covers comments.

Ray I have the utmost respect for the AKCA, and its board members. I still think and I have read Spikes comments, that the AKCA has over stepped the line on this. They are a hobbiest organization, and have no bussines getting involved in any dealers/breeders bussines or health practices.

I think that Shinkokai would better serve the koi dealers in this, or the breeders association, in a combined effort. As both of those organizations are for bussines men and women.

These are just my thoughts, and in no way do I mean to disrespect the AKCA or any of it's members.

As far as the KHA program I am sure there are many good people trained however, I still think that there are just as many who are and have over stepped there bounds. There is a fine line that can be crossed when dealing and helping others with there ponds and fish. I know the things I have done in the past to help others, would not reflect kindly on the AKCA if I was a certified KHA.

AKCA can be held accountable for the KHA's that are certified under there program, all it takes is just one to over step the bounds, and a homeowner feels that there fish died because of a KHA's treatment to the koi, and bam they have a lawsuit filed.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. Ray I have the utmost respect for the AKCA, and its board members. I still think and I have read Spikes comments, that the AKCA has over stepped the line on this. They are a hobbiest organization, and have no bussines getting involved in any dealers/breeders bussines or health practices. I think that Shinkokai would better serve the koi dealers in this, or the breeders association, in a combined effort. As both of those organizations are for bussines men and women. These are just my thoughts, and in no way do I mean to disrespect the AKCA or any of it's members. As far as the KHA program I am sure there are many good people trained however, I still think that there are just as many who are and have over stepped there bounds. There is a fine line that can be crossed when dealing and helping others with there ponds and fish. I know the things I have done in the past to help others, would not reflect kindly on the AKCA if I was a certified KHA. AKCA can be held accountable for the KHA's that are certified under there program, all it takes is just one to over step the bounds, and a homeowner feels that there fish died because of a KHA's treatment to the koi, and bam they have a lawsuit filed.

Very good point Nancy, I share the same thoughts too.

[Nancy M.]

Another thing I keep hearing that, dealers, hobbyist, breeders are all hiding KHV facts, from the public and not sharing or disclosing information, and that the DBHP would show accountability of dealers and breeders.

If I understand the program correctly, then it would appear that a Licensed Vet would be involved... Now under there hippocratic oath, they could not and would not disclose any information about any KHV, including dealers, breeders, hobbyist, no names no disclosures of any sort.. Other wise they would be in jeopardy of a lawsuit and or losing there license. So how would all the nay sayers get any more information than they already are getting? No information would be distributed, it would be the same as it is now.

As some dealers and breeders have shown, if a problem occurs they inform the public. To me it would seem that any "reputable dealer/breeder" would come forward and inform the public, just as we have seen recently. The DBHP would not and could not enforce any dealer/breeder to disclose any information or the vet on the case.

The dealers/backyard breeders, that would not come clean on there own, would never be forced to do so under the DBHP. Those are the ones that need to be educated, if the hobbyist quit buying from those type of dealers/ breeders they would be put out of business, but hobbyist are always looking for those "good deals", like ebay and auctions, wallymart.

[MikeM]

I think the U.S. Shinkokai would do a great service for its members if it did come up with its own standards. I think it best for AKCA to stay out of commercial entanglements. But, this is what happens when the dealer community at large is not proactive in addressing hobbyist concerns. There has been a huge void for a lot of years. The hobbyist community is going to fill it unless the commercial community steps up.

[kntry]

Nancy, whenever diagnosis and injections are involved, the KHA is required to get a Vet involved.

Some KHA's have not done this, it's even been posted on the Boards. So you're right, the AKCA could be involved in lawsuits with some KHA's stepping over the boundaries of what they're allowed to do.

[farne230]

First off, Thanks Ray your information was very informative and I am pleased the AKCA is addressing KHV. It is clear any organization that addresses this issue is a move in the right directoin, but:

My thoughts as a hobbiest: I will support the U.S. Shinkokai only if and when I see a real effort in controling KHV and I am convienced open disclosure and control are implimented, otherwise I will support other private or public organizations to control the spread of KHV within the USA, including encouraging government agencies to take a more active role and police import and dealer distribution, as well as public/private outbreaks.
Bob

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by kntry Nancy, whenever diagnosis and injections are involved, the KHA is required to get a Vet involved. That sure as hell doesn't go on around these parts! Diagnosis and injections are given repeatedly by a couple KHAs I'm aware of. One also charges for their services as they use their koi pond cleaning/consultation business as a front! I know personally, because it happened to me! Some KHA's have not done this, it's even been posted on the Boards. So you're right, the AKCA could be involved in lawsuits with some KHA's stepping over the boundaries of what they're allowed to do.

How is a hobbyist to know if their club's KHAs are doing the right things and within their AUTHORIZED LIMITATIONS if we don't know what those limitations really are?

Mike

[bekko]

Regardless of what Shinkokai, AKCA, breeders and dealers do, the fate of your koi is still in your own hands. There is no substitute for careful, thoughtful and prolonged quarantine.

KHV is not something that can be ignored and there will never be a fool-proof way to prevent it. We all support additional practical steps to control it. But, what is its potential impact in the worst case scenario? Will KHV ever become prevalent enough to kill more back-yard koi than Aeromonas or Costia? I don't think so.

To some extent, the problem is self-regulating. If a breeder or dealer gets KHV his choices are to either (1) eradicate the disease, or (2) let the disease push him out of business. Ignoring the disease and continually passing infected koi on to customers does not seem to be a viable option.

-steve

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar

Originally Posted by kntry
Nancy, whenever diagnosis and injections are involved, the KHA is required to get a Vet involved.

That sure as hell doesn't go on around these parts! Diagnosis and injections are given repeatedly by a couple KHAs I'm aware of. One also charges for their services as they use their koi pond cleaning/consultation business as a front! I know personally, because it happened to me!

Some KHA's have not done this, it's even been posted on the Boards. So you're right, the AKCA could be involved in lawsuits with some KHA's stepping over the boundaries of what they're allowed to do.

How is a hobbyist to know if their club's KHAs are doing the right things and within their AUTHORIZED LIMITATIONS if we don't know what those limitations really are?

Mike

MIke
As Hobbyist, we know or should know that KHA's, can NOT give injections, or sell you ANY antibiotics, they are not licensed to do either.

Many are crossing the line, I was reading on another forum, and was shocked to see what some KHA's think they have the right to do, and what they think they have the knowledge to do, perform surgury on a koi. I am still shocked and disgusted at what I seen. Here is a link, please beware the pics are very graphic and disturbing, This type of help and treatment is just so wrong.. it goes past being inhumane.

Mystery Du Jour #1 Huh? What Is That? - KoiShack=

[carrie1964]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. MIke As Hobbyist, we know or should know that KHA's, can NOT give injections, or sell you ANY antibiotics, they are not licensed to do either. Many are crossing the line, I was reading on another forum, and was shocked to see what some KHA's think they have the right to do, and what they think they have the knowledge to do, perform surgury on a koi. I am still shocked and disgusted at what I seen. Here is a link, please beware the pics are very graphic and disturbing, This type of help and treatment is just so wrong.. it goes past being inhumane. Mystery Du Jour #1 Huh? What Is That? - KoiShack=

I personally, had no idea of these limitations. I guess it`s my fault for not looking into it more. I think it`s a great program , but doesn`t this kind of thing open the KHA program to liability if the koi owner becomes disgruntled? Just curious.................

That poor koi.........