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Old 06-08-2008   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
This is what we will be doing as a participant in the BHP program.
Good for you Russell.
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Old 06-08-2008   #32 (permalink)
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Batch testing is fine, PROVIDED you keep EACH BREEDER'S FISH SEPARATE. Mixing from the trans shipper is a concern and then it falls on the dealer. Guess who gets the blame for mixed batches. Also, you've now just cross contaminated your ENTIRE SHIPMENT rather than just one breeder's fish. Does this make sense? At this point, I only personally know of ONE dealer who does this(separate breeder's fish in each tank)!

Mike
I know of 2 dealers in San Jose who separates their shipment by breeders, the one dealer that scares me is the one who says his fish are QT in Japan...
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Old 06-08-2008   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by koiczar View Post
Batch testing is fine, PROVIDED you keep EACH BREEDER'S FISH SEPARATE. Mixing from the trans shipper is a concern and then it falls on the dealer. Guess who gets the blame for mixed batches. Also, you've now just cross contaminated your ENTIRE SHIPMENT rather than just one breeder's fish. Does this make sense? At this point, I only personally know of ONE dealer who does this(separate breeder's fish in each tank)!

Mike
Which dealer?
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Old 06-08-2008   #34 (permalink)
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This morning I reviewed the websites of several U.S. dealers I consider reputable to see what they might say about their QT process. I found very little information. Quality Koi references its bio-security and having tested KHV-free. USA Koi details its QT and makes reference to warming water and to buying from fewer breeders to limit exposure opportunities to KHV. Most sites make no reference to their QT process and if some mention of QT is even made, there are no specifics. (I did not review everyone, so I'm sure I overlooked some detailing of QT by a well-known dealer; and there could be something hidden among all the 'stuff' even on sites I did review. I did not look at every page of every site... just the pages that sounded like there might be something.)

Hobbyists should be concerned about these processes. At the same time, I'm sure dealers do not want to create fear by talking about KHV. And, some may have a challenge if there are different processes for different grades of koi. The customer for a $50 tosai probably isn't going to be excited to learn individualized assessment is not feasible at that price level. [Let's see.... 'We sample test to provide you peace of mind that all koi under 10" you buy from us are parasite and KHV-free. For koi priced over $1,000, we scrape and scope each fish, have blood samples of each tested and provide you the certified test results that your koi tested negative for KHV.'.... hmmmmm.]

As the concern over KHV mounts, and the internet is going to keep it mounting with every backyard outbreak getting attention, I think dealers will need to be more proactive in communicating their QT processes.

Personally, I have not acquired a fish in the past few years without knowing how the fish was being QT'd, examined, etc. Then I made my judgment call. I have no concern about Quality Koi/Nisei Koi Farm because I know their bio-security (and all the scraping/scoping and examination they do). I do not feel a need for individualized KHV testing on their fish. Dealers importing from multiple Japanese breeders are in a different category. No matter what else they do, I want the individualized blood test before the fish gets near my pond. (I have had Kevin get the test done. I believe the charge is fair considering everything. It extends the QT period, but I can be patient.)

The AKCA Best Health Practices program may help dealers with these concerns, but whether a dealer signs up for BHP or not, communicating KHV prevention/detection processes is going to be increasingly important for dealer success.

Last edited by MikeM; 06-08-2008 at 09:50 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 06-08-2008   #35 (permalink)
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Distorted view revisited.

I see there are some hens clucking elsewhere about the flare ups of KHV here and there. A thimble full of knowledge is such a dangerous thing. And since one can't 'goggle' an answer it seems that logical thinking is not a fall back position for drawing conclusions any more?

MANY backyard dealers get their stock from the same larger high profile dealers who solicit them from postings on message boards. This is a form of advertising as emails and instant messages identify an internet customer as a 'qualifying' network. IF one of these dealers is unlucky enough to get a dose of KHV, the potential to spread this shipment around to the country’s backyard dealer network is high. EBay can make it potentially higher. In other words, it is not surprising when we hear that a small dealer in Alabama AND a small dealer in Detroit AND a small dealer in Seattle ALL have KHV at one time. This 'daisy chain' has long ago been identified when things like an overdosed parasite treatment shows up in different parts of the country and it was eventually pinpointed as being from one shipment emerging from one breeder or one major importer/trans shipper.
Someone please get to the squawking hens and explain that to them before they panic the rest into thinking KHV is becoming omni-present. JR
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Old 06-09-2008   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitori View Post
I know of 2 dealers in San Jose who separates their shipment by breeders, the one dealer that scares me is the one who says his fish are QT in Japan...
Tony

That's why I haven't purchased anything from them in the last 4 years!

Mike
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Old 06-09-2008   #37 (permalink)
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Everyone participating in this thread, I thank you. I am learning quiet abit. It is alot of work for our local dealers,but once it becomes a practice we will all be better for it.
Bob
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Old 06-09-2008   #38 (permalink)
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On to the next concern

So as this thread twists and turns throught the avenues of concern in our minds, which one of the numerous Show chairs who visits this board would like to explain about what their show is doing to furthur instill confidence in those who anticipate showing.

I will be benching for three shows this year and will be be extra cautious with cross contamination issues and visual inspections of entrants.

Last year in Portland we had Dr Miller-Morgan following our procedures and making recommendations for any changes. This was very helpful in helping the crew "See" our procedures thru different sight......
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Old 06-09-2008   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
So as this thread twists and turns throught the avenues of concern in our minds, which one of the numerous Show chairs who visits this board would like to explain about what their show is doing to furthur instill confidence in those who anticipate showing.

I will be benching for three shows this year and will be be extra cautious with cross contamination issues and visual inspections of entrants.

Last year in Portland we had Dr Miller-Morgan following our procedures and making recommendations for any changes. This was very helpful in helping the crew "See" our procedures thru different sight......
Dick

Could you expound on the info you all received from Dr. Miller-Morgan? Sounds like it might help some "new" and "vet" chairs alike.

Mike
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Old 06-09-2008   #40 (permalink)
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News!!!!!!

News:

Thai Nippon Fish Farm : Tnff.co.th

If the greatest Fish Farm in the world can get it, anything is possible....

I do remember another famous Sakai bought fish from Sakai Hiroshima this year....
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