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Thread: Ozone

  1. #1
    Tategoi Erns's Avatar
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    Ozone

    After researching ozone for almost a year now and going back and forth on what to do I finally settled on this unit:

    Koizo3 Ozone Cell - Ozone Systems - Absolute Koi

    Let me know what you think. I know it's a debated topic and some out there believe that if you have a good system you don't need uv's or ozone. I respect that but I've read enough to convince me that there has to be more positives than negatives to it. This option came across as economical and safe.

  2. #2
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    What ORP or relative hydrogen (rH) levels are the target? Why do you not think you can achive those targets with traditional filtration or aeration components and pond system design?

    How will you keep ORP from sliding every week? If a ORP controller probe is leff in the water column (needed so that it does control the generator), bio film will grow on the probe and cause it to read higher. I can see that happen in two days in our pond. When the probe reads too high...too little O3 is put into the mixing chamber...so the ORP is sliding. So either the proble needs to be cleaned (and calibrated to the meter) every day or the ORP will start high and slide XmV in a week before the next proble cleaning.

    Wishing you every success with whatever you decide!
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif'][/FONT]
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    What ORP or relative hydrogen (rH) levels are the target? Why do you not think you can achive those targets with traditional filtration or aeration components and pond system design?

    How will you keep ORP from sliding every week? If a ORP controller probe is leff in the water column (needed so that it does control the generator), bio film will grow on the probe and cause it to read higher. I can see that happen in two days in our pond. When the probe reads too high...too little O3 is put into the mixing chamber...so the ORP is sliding. So either the proble needs to be cleaned (and calibrated to the meter) every day or the ORP will start high and slide XmV in a week before the next proble cleaning.

    Wishing you every success with whatever you decide!
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif'][/FONT]
    Just to echo Mike here.... I recently started monitoring my ORP and I find it needs cleaning and adjustment fairly regular.

    Grant

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    I take exception to the reference that 'some' say---- That is a statement borne from lack of experience. For those who are in touch with the international koi community and know the entire history of ozone in the koi keeping culture, that started around the late 1960's, ozone has little relevance in the outdoor koi pond. In the USA and in the UK, ozone has been used by many over the years, that are considered experts in the hobby. In all cases I know of, they no longer use ozone in the pond. In it's most benign form, ozone will remove green water and organic flux. This is, of course, a way to deal with some fundamental deficiency in the system itself, the stocking level or the sophistication of the new koi keeper and a reflection of their skills or lack thereof.

    There is also another 'people behavior' evident in koi keeping and in reef keeping that can't be denied and can be identified. And that is, the observation that Males hoobyists tend to go over board in their hunt for perfection in water quality. You rarely see woman hunting down every piece of technology to appear to gain an imaginary advantage over nature. So in the pursuit of having a bigger one or a better one, many of these gadgets are sold and used on koi ponds. But just a little sophistication regarding what a koi pond IS and what a koi pond ISN'T should produce the answer that ozone simply has no place or role in the operation of a properly designed, properly stocked and properly maintained outdoor koi pond.
    Sorry, but that is the truth. JR

  5. #5
    Nisai glitterfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post

    There is also another 'people behavior' evident in koi keeping and in reef keeping that can't be denied and can be identified. And that is, the observation that Males hoobyists tend to go over board in their hunt for perfection in water quality. You rarely see woman hunting down every piece of technology to appear to gain an imaginary advantage over nature. So in the pursuit of having a bigger one or a better one, many of these gadgets are sold and used on koi ponds. But just a little sophistication regarding what a koi pond IS and what a koi pond ISN'T should produce the answer that ozone simply has no place or role in the operation of a properly designed, properly stocked and properly maintained outdoor koi pond.
    Sorry, but that is the truth. JR
    Yep... agree with all of it.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Have seen Ozone used one some very nice looking ponds, but the fish seem to look very old for their age....not to mention any names here..

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    Hi tony. You've heard my rap on this subject so I won't bore you with the full explanation.

    But I can list the benefits and drawbacks and let the readers draw their own conclusions;

    Ozone, depending on dose strength- can kill, maim or 'not kill' life. In the ideal, to make water clear and transparent, it can be dosed to kill 'small forms of life'. And only that life that passes near it ( similar concept to UV). So in a closed system it was once envisioned that ozone could be enlisted to :
    1) kill parasites, green algae cells and 'bad' bacteria. Often the marketing hype will call this 'sterilizing' the water. An obvious reference to the fact that the writer of the hype is clueless in their understanding about the desired microbial balance in a pond longterm. Ironically, just the way the natural gravel and rock bottom folks vision/version of the pond environment is- only from the opposite orientation.
    2) make the water look like a resort swimming pool. The ultimate wrong approach for koi ponds but an ideal marketing piece for newbies who associate gin clear water with health.

    On the flip side of this vision is the actual long term health of the pond and its need to have competive exclusion and balance to the water in terms of microbes to fish. And this goes beyond ammonia conversion.
    Typically, the units I have seen working are in addition to massive overkill of all areas of water treatment. So the ozone is hopefully reduced to a background role. In this case, testosterone fumes aside, the unit can be considered anecdotal in the best case scenario.

    At the end of the day, the best fish in the world are produced in Japan and the best maintained fish in the world are in Japan. And ozone is seen once in a blue moon in Japan. You would think that would be enough evidence as to how to keep koi? I have run ozone. I think it has it's place in a true hospital tank where it's potential can be used purposefully. Otherwise it is akin to those penis enlarging machines you see on the internet. IMHO JR

  8. #8
    Oyagoi gspotmc's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for the info. Well said.

  9. #9
    Tategoi Erns's Avatar
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    Just a dumb question but did anybody actually read the info regarding this 'gimmic' on the link that I provided?

    It seems there has been some advances in the approach to ozone in the last 6 months and perhaps it's worth looking into it?

    I read 2 recent articles in UK koi magazines and their findings is quite opposite to those posted here.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei
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    Erns, yes I read the marketing. I thought that is what I was responding to?
    They suggest that you can target pathogens. That is not correct. All free floating bacteria are killed not just aeromonas. And aeromonas is a common member of our ponds. It is not possible to remove it to zero unless you remove the species that also keep it in check. This represents a weaking of the system and not an enhancement.
    They also suggested that ozone removes dangerous nitrIte by converting it to nitrAte. That is what a properly operating bio-reactor does? What is the point of that? If you have nitrIte present, you have a fundamental problem as I mentioned in my earlier post. What's worse, if you only correct that one dimension of your problem what about the factors that caused it to happen to begin with??

    As far as safety goes, these units have gotten progressively better with time. They have many alarms, shutoffs and fail safes now. No question about that. But having said that, I posted a news report a while back about the total wipe out of a major public aquarium's shark tank when the state of the art ozonator malfunctioned during the night. Murphy's law, I'm afraid. Looking at this unit ( it looks undersized to me for a 10,000 pond and that ironically might be a saving grace) I would trust the controls to a point. Outside and in winter weather I would not sleep well. That Murphy guy again. JR

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