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Thread: The right PH?

  1. #1
    zek
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    The right PH?

    I was looking at the Feb/Mar ’08 Koi Nations last night and found an article about soft water/PH. It states that a PH of 7.5 is tolerable, but higher than 7.8 is “simply not good” and will ruin skin pigment. It advocates a PH between 7.0 – 7.3. I’ll never get there. I’m at a rock solid 8.2-8.3 for the last couple months that I have been testing with a Hanna meter. This is very close to the source. From this the only thing I have going is a stable PH. There is no variation morning to night.

    I don’t even want to get into the soft water portion of the article. I’ll never get there either.

    Is the bottom line here I will never get the best out of my koi?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    to me Koi keeping is like running the Boston Marathon. Very few people expect to come out as number one, But each wants to finish and if it's a repeat performance they want to better their former best time.
    that said......
    There are very few of us that can provide the specific water that provides the best skin, growth and development.( let alone the best Tategoi to work with) Most wells or municiple water are off the mark and unless we want or can afford to invest in costly equipment, it's gonna be difficult to match what is needed. BUT like the runners, It's nice to know what the top leaders ran and where we fit in AND looking to Kaisan ( improve daily) . We can work on bettering our quality of koi and water they develop in. I believe the article you refer to was Written by Mike Snaeden.
    I think his articles provide knowledge of the target for us all to shoot for. We may come a little short but at least we know what it is that we're aiming at.
    Dick Benbow

  3. #3
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    What Dick stated in right on! To get to the desired parameters is possible but it won't be cheap, then again this hobby is not. You'll need an RO system.

  4. #4
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I'm still at the bottom of the learning curve but as long as your pH is stable, that should be your goal. Mine runs 7 out of the well and 8.5-9 in the pond. My fish are 23-24" and have been growing 4-5" a year. Their skin is very nice, their colors vibrant and they are healthy.

    Stability is the key.

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Yes, yes, yes...... But: There is a real learning curve to be mastered before some things should be attempted. After a person understands their water, masters maintaining a stable pH, maintaining a consistently highly oxygenated system with low dissolved organics, and finds the discipline required to do it year upon year, then you can try moving to an even higher level of altering source water to a presumed ideal. That demands more.

  6. #6
    zek
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Yes, yes, yes...... But: There is a real learning curve to be mastered before some things should be attempted. After a person understands their water, masters maintaining a stable pH, maintaining a consistently highly oxygenated system with low dissolved organics, and finds the discipline required to do it year upon year, then you can try moving to an even higher level of altering source water to a presumed ideal. That demands more.

    I fully understand the goal. I'm leaps and bounds above where I started 2 years ago and know the curve continues up. There are numerous changes planned for the next pond (bigger, deeper, better filtration) but none of the planned changes can address the basic PH issue. That was a striking realization.

  7. #7
    MCA
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    you can do a water softner....something that anyone with hard water might want for their house anyway. Cheaper that an RO unit...but probably not quite as effective either. It mignt be a good compromise. One large unit should handle your house ane the weekly pond water changes.

  8. #8
    zek
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    I see a couple softners that are "fairly" inexpensive.

    The EWS whole house water conditioner

    PRINCIPLE


    The EWS combines both filtration and conditioning in one system. The filtration is accomplished with a very high grade of Granular Activated Carbon (GAC). Used extensively in both water and air filtration, GAC works on the principle of adsorption, where substances in water are attracted to, and adhere to the surface of the carbon. GAC is carbon that has been activated to produce an extensive intricate inner pore structure with a large surface area.

    GAC is most widely used for the removal of chlorine, chloramines (chlorine and ammonia), bad taste and odors. It is also used to remove volatile organic compounds, phenols, herbicides, pesticides, and surfactants. Most minerals, having the same polarity as carbon, are not removed when filtering through carbon. Carbon is the last stage in both reverse osmosis and distillation systems for removal of chlorine and volatile organic compounds.

    The ICN Conditioner causes a physical change of the minerals. The minerals are breaking apart from the water molecules and bond together. Operating on principles of polarity, the calcium and magnesium are attracted each other rather than attaching to pipes and other surfaces. The minerals are put into a suspended state, making them less adhering. Technically, this is called "increased calcite nucleation".

    Once you go down the softner road and pull out the calcium buffers how do you control PH fluctuations from both rain & algae? We can get inches of rain at times in the summer and early fall. 2 years ago we were hit with 13" in 36 hrs. Hurricane remnents are not rare either and dump massive ammounts.

    How do the Japanese do this with extremely soft water?

  9. #9
    MCA
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    water changes, filteration, aeration, and watching the stocking levels

  10. #10
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Zek: Search this forum for posts by HenryC about using an ino exchange water softener. You'll find a couple of threads with very informative comments. I'd go that route except for not having figured out a way to discharge brine. (All of my waste water irrigates the garden.)

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