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Thread: Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment

  1. #1
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment

    I have been interested in Mike Snaden's (Yumi Koi in UK) concept of koi growth and soft water condition, so when I moved all of my koi out from the QT tank to the outdoor pond I thought to myself, "what better way to learn this than to carry out an experiment myself." With the help of Arthur & Tony from Oregon Sunset Koi (who is a sponsor of this forum) I picked out a dozen Takahashi showa tosai ranging in size from 6.5" to 8.5". I also purchased two Ogata shiro utsuri tosai from another local dealer for the experiment.

    Mike Snaden has always believed that a hobbyist can match or exceed the growth achieved by Japanese mud ponds. He states that the "magic" is in the soft water. In one article he reports keeping over 40 nisai in a 4,400 UK pond and still achieving phenomenal growth. The purpose of this study is to be able to achieve rapid growth in 14 tosai ranging in length from 6.5" to 8.5" in a 1,500 gal (including filtration) garaged QT tank.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Here are pictures of the first 7 participants. Please keep in mind that the main focus of this study is achieving growth in soft water condition and predicting growth based on tosai conformation. I am not too concerned about skin quality or pattern. However, I am concerned about how the sumi and beni will hold up in koi undergoing rapid growth.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-1.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-2.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-3.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-4.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-5.jpg  

    Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-6.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-7.jpg  

  3. #3
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Here is the remaining 7 participants.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-8.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-9.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-10.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-11.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-12.jpg  

    Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-13.jpg   Lam's Personal Tosai Grow Out Experiment-grow-out-koi-14.jpg  

  4. #4
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Here are the experiment parameters:

    pH: 6.8 - 7.2
    Temp: 75-80 degrees Fahrenheit
    Salinity: 0-0.1%
    GH: 30-60
    KH: 60-100
    TDS: To be announced (don't have a TDS meter yet)
    Ammonia: 0
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: Trace
    O2 Sat: To be announced (again, don't have O2 meter)

    The 1,300 gal garaged QT tank is filtered by a Nexus 200 w/ maxed K-1 kaldnes (200 liters) followed by a J-brush filter box. There is a constant trickle that replaces about 5% of water daily. The Nexus will also be drained daily giving about a 10% total daily water change.

    As far as diet is concerned, these koi will be fed on a daily staple of saki-hikari growth (2-5 times/day), Izeki paste food concoction (once daily), and an occasional fruit or vegetable.

    Because these koi are kept indoors over the next months, I will also have broad-spectrum lighting that will mimic the sunlight spectrum. I am still researching this so will hopefully have something soon.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    I intend to keep these koi in the QT tank from now until sometimes next summer, at which time I will find homes for them. I understand that this is a serious forum for the serious hobbyists with serious koi, so please keep in mind that these tosai are just for a personal learning experiment.

    Now that I have posted the participants and the study parameters, all suggestions are welcome. Here are some questions that I have so far:

    1. Predicting conformation based on the pixs provided, how would you guys rank these koi's growth rate?

    2. What size will they be six months down the road (next April) and 12 months down the road (next October)?

    3. Koi #1 and #11 have clipped right pectoral fins (I chose these on purpose). Do you guys think that these will grow and recover over time?

    4. Which ones are females and which ones are males?

    5. Based on skin quality, sashi, and kiwa, which koi will hold their sumi and beni and which koi will have sumi and/or beni fade over time.

    These are the questions I have so far. Anymore suggestions is welcome.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    good luck with your experiment

    and thanks for keeping us in the loop.......
    I'll be watching in the first batch Showa # 5 of 7 and in the second batch , showa # 4 of 7.....

    glad your not keeping all this "fun" to yourself.....

  7. #7
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
    and thanks for keeping us in the loop.......
    I'll be watching in the first batch Showa # 5 of 7 and in the second batch , showa # 4 of 7.....

    glad your not keeping all this "fun" to yourself.....
    and both females, I think.....

    I'm pretty confident on the first one....huge, round pectoral fins.

  8. #8
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Koi #1 and 11 with clipped pecs have a greart chance at this age to recover, I have seen breeders snip close to an entire pec off on a tosai and by nisei you'd never be able to tell! The rejuvenation ability in the young is amazing.....

  9. #9
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Thank you for the responses guys. Yes, I heard that split, torn, or missing pecs will heal or regrow in young koi, so I suspect that koi #1 and #11 will heal over time. Will keep all of you updated on its healing process.

    I think that there are a few females in the batch. I have already speculated which ones are males and which ones are females. Will have to wait and see.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    I like Showa #1, even thou it might be male. The type of sumi you have on these Showa is old type Kobayashi sumi, the sumi looks more flat...Each one of these selections are a good study and I would suggest studying the Showa's that have sumi freckling on the beni, we will see if it cleans up in the coming months....

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