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Thread: Two-year-old Chinese Breeder

  1. #11
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    brett,
    let me get this right...you buy Machinery from factories that were and are government subsidized?
    Very good! What choice have I got? I want to run my engines on alternative fuels. I use SVO as my primary engine fuel at the farm, Straight Vegetable Oil from restaraunts. Kubota and John Deere don't warranty such use. Besides, they actually have to pay for labor and such, drives the purchase cost up.

    Of late I;ve switched to Indian engines, heavier and slower, but more fuel effecient and stouter.

    But, government subsidized farming operations (all over the world, not just in China) are putting American fish farmers out of business right and left, including ornamental fish farms.

    I'm sure as with the machinery that its as much about hard currency as profits. Stuff like koi can actually be sold here for less than the cost of production, to garner hard currency. Now try to compete against no profit motive!

    It would be nice for a level playing field, but of course, pragmatically speaking, that would never happen.

    Do this....when you go to the store to buy fish to eat, look at the "COOL" (Country OF Origin Label) label. It will be tiny, almost unnoticeable unless you know exactly what you are looking for. The rest of the label and logo will be exactly the same as an American counterpart (one with a good name and reputation). If it says, "Product of China" you can pretty darn well bet it was turned down for entry into the EU and sold for consumption here in the US because we've few laws and no inspections over such imports. Melamine, chloramphenicol, and therapuetants banned for use in the US can commonly be found tainting imports of food, especially seafood, from Asia. Only Arkansas has a program preventing the entry of such products, only to have them sold in Texas.

    If the COOL label says, "Product of USA" you can bet its not only been inspected several times and passed, if from a farm, the farm meets certain minimal criteria and the likelyhood of any banned therapeutants is very small. Of course you will also have paid more for it.

    Still, it is a pretty farm and I'm sure they'll be able to send many more hundreds of thousands of koi and goldfish to the US than I'll have produced in a lifetime.

    Like I tell folks, "Product comes from China, service comes from the US."

    I admit it, even trying to use alternative fuels and every other cost saving measure I can think of, I'll never be able to compete with the Chinese. Yall had best hope they do a good job of breeding koi, as it'll be the only ones you can get.

    Probably much sooner than later, I won't be PRODUCING anything, I'll be SERVICING ponds full of fish from China. Heck, already am.

    Brett
    Brett

  2. #12
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    It's an unfair world, Brett. Today it is the low-cost competition from Asia that hurts domestic producers throughout the western countries, no matter what the product. 150 years ago, it was western colonialism that held down industrialization in Asia. The real challenge is figuring out how a global economy can lift people up without bringing others down. No fun being in the middle of forces that cannot be controlled.

    On the bright side, I like to think of how koi will be able to progress over the next 50 years with the increased hobbyist base a properous Asia brings. The Japanese koi breeder owes a great deal now to the prosperity of southeastern Asia. Just a couple of thousand high-end hobbyists in China could lift the Japanese breeders to new heights... both in quality and price. That price squeeze could mean a growing market for quality domestic koi?

    You're a smart guy, Brett. I'd bet on you finding a way through. It's those who are unwilling to learn new ways and adapt to changing conditions who will fail. That's not you.

  3. #13
    Daihonmei
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    Dec 2003
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    5,198
    yeah MikeM
    that bringing "them" up without pulling "US" down thing has had me scratching my head for a long time.
    Look within the USA....look at California or the Northeast...
    look at the south...
    The South has been manacled for over a century by the powerful parts of the country...of all the States Florida should have near the highest level of living..I am amazed with that.
    it isn't the tax burden or the cost of living in those regions..it is thta they have a greater amount of expendable income at the end of the day...

    I had hoped that the additional amount of work that is being done by technology(computers) would be spread globally but instead it has made the "haves" lazier and still get the same work done and therefore the same pay.

  4. #14
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    5,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbreeder View Post
    Very good! What choice have I got? I want to run my engines on alternative fuels. I use SVO as my primary engine fuel at the farm, Straight Vegetable Oil from restaraunts. Kubota and John Deere don't warranty such use. Besides, they actually have to pay for labor and such, drives the purchase cost up.

    Of late I;ve switched to Indian engines, heavier and slower, but more fuel effecient and stouter.

    But, government subsidized farming operations (all over the world, not just in China) are putting American fish farmers out of business right and left, including ornamental fish farms.

    I'm sure as with the machinery that its as much about hard currency as profits. Stuff like koi can actually be sold here for less than the cost of production, to garner hard currency. Now try to compete against no profit motive!

    It would be nice for a level playing field, but of course, pragmatically speaking, that would never happen.

    Do this....when you go to the store to buy fish to eat, look at the "COOL" (Country OF Origin Label) label. It will be tiny, almost unnoticeable unless you know exactly what you are looking for. The rest of the label and logo will be exactly the same as an American counterpart (one with a good name and reputation). If it says, "Product of China" you can pretty darn well bet it was turned down for entry into the EU and sold for consumption here in the US because we've few laws and no inspections over such imports. Melamine, chloramphenicol, and therapuetants banned for use in the US can commonly be found tainting imports of food, especially seafood, from Asia. Only Arkansas has a program preventing the entry of such products, only to have them sold in Texas.

    If the COOL label says, "Product of USA" you can bet its not only been inspected several times and passed, if from a farm, the farm meets certain minimal criteria and the likelyhood of any banned therapeutants is very small. Of course you will also have paid more for it.

    Still, it is a pretty farm and I'm sure they'll be able to send many more hundreds of thousands of koi and goldfish to the US than I'll have produced in a lifetime.

    Like I tell folks, "Product comes from China, service comes from the US."

    I admit it, even trying to use alternative fuels and every other cost saving measure I can think of, I'll never be able to compete with the Chinese. Yall had best hope they do a good job of breeding koi, as it'll be the only ones you can get.

    Probably much sooner than later, I won't be PRODUCING anything, I'll be SERVICING ponds full of fish from China. Heck, already am.

    Brett
    Interesting that you say you are shifting your buying source to India as the world sweat shop moguls have been leaving China in droves because the cost of labor is cheaper in INDIA.

  5. #15
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    The global economy affects even the practice of law. Indian law school grads fluent in English are focusing on time-intensive areas of U.S. law, such as patent application writing, securities disclosure documents and document reviews in electronic data-intensive litigation (like antitrust cases). They are sub-contracting with U.S. law firms and major corporations to perform work at rates that would not support the pay and benefits of a secretary. It is all handled through secure internet connections. The Indian lawyers earn incomes less than low-level clerical staff in the U.S., but are high income professionals by their standards. The impact is slight today, but growing. The effect is to lower costs for major corporations, making them more competitive, and limiting the profitability of the thousand-lawyer firms serving corporate America. Good? Bad? Indifferent? ... It depends on whose ox is being gored. In the long run, I think it will be good. In the short run, I'm glad my ox is not readily targeted from India. ....BTW, accountants employed in electronic data audits are in the same boat.

    What cannot be substituted is customized excellence. That is why the the koi breeders of Japan can survive and thrive.

    It is one world. In time, national boundaries will be as anachronistic as hunter-gatherers in the Amazon basin. I would like to live to see it, but know I won't.

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