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Thread: Oz Feral Carp x Shiro Utsuri

  1. #1
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Oz Feral Carp x Shiro Utsuri

    I mentioned in another thread that this year I have crossed a male feral carp with a female Shiro Utsuri. The goals are inspired by what has already been achieved in Japan. In Oz, few koi reach over 80cm and these are mainly Ogons. An occassional Gosanke will reach the 70+cm size, but by and large they are stopped in the 60s.

    The goal is to add size, vigor and growth. I know this is the start of a very long term breeding program of many years.

    Here is a picture of the male
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Oz Feral Carp x Shiro Utsuri-oz-carp-male.jpg  

  2. #2
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    So how big a boy is he?
    Obviously you are right about this being a long-term project, but it will be interesting to see the results. Particularly the culling ratio's and growth rates in the first generation compared to your traditional pairings. Your fellow Kichi down under may well owe you a debt of gratitude down the road

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    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Nice looking brute. With that photo, you could call it a Chagoi and folks would accept your statement.

  4. #4
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    He has awesome conformation and yes, he does look like a Chagoi. Beautiful!

    I hope you post pics of the fry as they grow.

  5. #5
    Tosai
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    I am curious as to why you picked a Shiro Utsuri. I'm sure you had a reason.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe View Post
    I am curious as to why you picked a Shiro Utsuri. I'm sure you had a reason.
    Quick reply as I am heading out for breakfast.

    The female SU is from an approx 70cm Showa spawn. She has the best confirmation from among other females I have available.

    I have another friend who is working with me and she has paired a male kohaku with a female carp of a different strain.

  7. #7
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    thank you ....enjoy your breakfast, I am looking forward to following your program.
    nice fellow that one!

  8. #8
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    So how big a boy is he?
    Obviously you are right about this being a long-term project, but it will be interesting to see the results. Particularly the culling ratio's and growth rates in the first generation compared to your traditional pairings. Your fellow Kichi down under may well owe you a debt of gratitude down the road
    When I got the carp he was 3 years old in September 2008 and he was 45cm. We know how old he is as the person I got him from collected the eggs. I caught him today as he lurked like a silent torpedeo at the bottom of the pond and measured the brute at 51cm.

    The fry are almost 2 weeks old and so far amongst the thousands I have seen one orange and the rest are all dark. The little orange one is a surprise. They are all growing faster than others I have spawned. They are roughly the size I would get usually at around 3-4 weeks.

    Some of my fellow koi Kichi are seeking 80cm as well. I have encouraged one to use his female 87cm Kumonryu. I have another friend who is trying kohaku from an Ochiba spawn. So, I am not the only one seeking the size. I am going about it more along the Japanese way.

    My contribution may be more the value of the journey than the destination.
    Last edited by mrbradleybradley; 12-31-2008 at 04:15 AM. Reason: added info

  9. #9
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Nice looking brute. With that photo, you could call it a Chagoi and folks would accept your statement.
    In person he does not have a Chagoi feel. His barbels are slightly longer and the skin is more primitive. If you compare him to others in the pond you come to appreciate the different structure of scale and skin in koi.

    The behaviour is different too. He 'cruises', 'stalking' the bottom, rarely venturing into other levels. Therefore, he hardly ever schools with the other males.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Your description of his behavior is very interesting to me. Several years ago I acquired a Showa bred by Marusada (not exactly what that farm is known for) that has obvious heavy magoi influence in the bone structure. A curiously peculiar fish in several ways. For the first two years I had her, she did not school with the other koi. She tended to hover away from the other fish. This separation lasted fully two years. Her feeding habits and swimming movements were all different. I've had her now for, I think, 6 years. She now joins the other koi with some regularity. I can see that she is more aloof, but others seeing her in the pond would not notice it now. She strongly prefers feeding from the bottom, but does take feed at all levels. Her swimming behavior remains different. No koi in the pond comes close to her speed when she decides to take off. I have believed the different behavior was linked to the wild genetics being more present than in my other koi. (I have no scientific basis to form that opinion.) Your observations of behavioral differences will be much appreciated. And, especially changes over time. Kind of like taming a wild horse, perhaps?

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