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Thread: San Diego Koi Show

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    Exclamation San Diego Koi Show

    Hey Some body tell me whats going on with koi show these days man. It seems to me it's more about who you know if you wana place in the show man. I saw a friends fish place 2nd on one fish and 3rd on another. He left home at 2pm. At 3:30pm his 3rd place winner was off the display screen and turns out another persons fish ended up getting 3rd. That is fishy to me it smells. Then at 4 - 5pm I see judges come out and talk to the owners and they know each other so well saying things like well I was gona give yours 2nd but majority of the votes wasn't in your favor....I was like wtf. Rigged. Show judges should not be friends with participants or rather know the participants in that kind of a fashion .... hence bias opinions and favoritism. I'm mad I was gona join the club but after this .... I need explainations. I heard enough about not being able to make their decision so they changed their minds a lot. Well don't post the results like that then because people go home celebrating their win only to find out the next day or at the bancquet that their fish didn't win anything. Secondly it's just shady with those bias votes man for reals. That's just wrong clean up SDKC. Just venting I'm sure this might be editied out but everyone should know about this though.

  2. #2
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colemankaze View Post
    Hey Some body tell me whats going on with koi show these days man. It seems to me it's more about who you know if you wana place in the show man. I saw a friends fish place 2nd on one fish and 3rd on another. He left home at 2pm. At 3:30pm his 3rd place winner was off the display screen and turns out another persons fish ended up getting 3rd. That is fishy to me it smells. Then at 4 - 5pm I see judges come out and talk to the owners and they know each other so well saying things like well I was gona give yours 2nd but majority of the votes wasn't in your favor....I was like wtf. Rigged. Show judges should not be friends with participants or rather know the participants in that kind of a fashion .... hence bias opinions and favoritism. I'm mad I was gona join the club but after this .... I need explainations. I heard enough about not being able to make their decision so they changed their minds a lot. Well don't post the results like that then because people go home celebrating their win only to find out the next day or at the bancquet that their fish didn't win anything. Secondly it's just shady with those bias votes man for reals. That's just wrong clean up SDKC. Just venting I'm sure this might be editied out but everyone should know about this though.
    First, Welcome to the board Colmankaze.
    Second, I am sure no one will edit the above post.
    Third, I wonder whether they have show results before 2PM today? Are you sure your friend left at 2PM? I was here around 3PM and see people still in process of recording for the show results.

    Regards,
    --D
    Last edited by dinh; 02-15-2009 at 02:10 AM.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Let's just say you put fish in front of a person to say why he/she likes it or why he/she dont like it. Shows are all different and I would say go down to the show tomorrow and ask for results...or even ask a judge.

  4. #4
    Tosai
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    Dinh - the results were post on screen since early morning I got there late about 10am and it was up already. If you were outside then you didn't see anything.... you had to go inside to the registration area to see it.

    Aqutori - true to an extent personal opinion is the obvious but before that there are standards. For example a 5 kohaku enter a show. 4 are your typical stepped pattern. but the 5th has two step pattern but both hi plates wrap around the whole body of the koi even the bottom of the belly. Now that koi right there would not even be considered for the top three correct? THat's just standard.

    At the show today I saw lots of changed results from morning til they turned off the screen. I saw a doitsu under 8" place best in class inthe morning and in the early evening it was changed to 3rd place taisho sanke 8" -12". That doesn't make sense especially when the koi is not in that class literally the koi is under 8". Then there were the doitsu under 8" class winners. 1st place was understandable as it was a doitsu hi showa. 2nd how ever is one of thos kois that shouldn't have been considered for the top three in that class at all. of all the doitsus there in that class literally there was a lot too. The 2nd place winner had to hi plates right on it's shoulder. and that's it. white and black all around. no more hi/red. Then there was the 3rd place winner of the doitsu class it is 10" and it won 3rd place for doitsu under 8". That is bs. Don't make sense. The doitsu sanke clearly should've been 1st or best in class for doitsu under 8". The owner was confused stating he thought his fish had won best in class and then later in the day to find out he won 3rd in a taisho sanke 8"-12" class. He told me he entered it in the doitsu class not regular gosanke class. thats just one cases of changes. THen there was the grand champion there was the kohaku and showa debate amongst the judges we all heard it if you were there listening to the arguments amongst the judge on who should take grand champ...well turns out the kohaku did but the showa that they were debating with should have gotten reserved grand champ right? well it ended up with best mature and the reserved champs where two other kois. Now that's just ridiculus. How do you go from no this kohaku A should be grandchamp ... no this showa A should be grand champ to the grand champ is the kohaku A and the showa A gets best matured. now lets go look for kois that can be reserved grand champs. it's screwed. THey almost changed the result for the grand champ too. After the decision was made they were thinking twice about it. I wonder who was the grand champion at the bancquet earlier tonight.

    http://koiclubsandiego.org/shoz/2009/pic.php?p=F128.JPG
    1st place doitsu under 8"

    http://koiclubsandiego.org/shoz/2009/pic.php?p=F285.JPG
    2nd place doitsu under 8"

    http://koiclubsandiego.org/shoz/2009/pic.php?p=F232.JPG
    3rd place doitsu under 8" this fish is 10" when measured at least that's what it said on the photo on the side and it is clearly more than 8" it was at least 3-4" longer than the doitsu showas that took 1st and 2nd not to mention the doitsu sanke that took 3rd in an upper class.

    http://koiclubsandiego.org/shoz/2009/pic.php?p=F242.JPG
    3rd place taisho sanke 8" -12" the owner stated this koi was entered in the doitsu class. Now it won best in class doitsu under 8" in the mornign and later changed to 3rd place taisho sanke 8" -12". How can that be when the koi was entered into the show as a doitsu and under 8". Placed in the Wrong size and class.


    There are more changed results and wrong classes but I wanted to talk to the owners and get their opinions on the results first. I don't have to ask a judge three of them stood right next to a participant in the show they knew and talked about how the votes went and what happened and why the participants fish didn't get 1st because majority of the votes was not in favor of the participants fish taking tha award. I was just appauled litterally. That just showed me that judges are bias and that there is favoritism going on at the show.They tried whispering but I'm less than two feet away and looking at the kois in the show tanks, don't mean I cant hear you.
    Last edited by colemankaze; 02-15-2009 at 05:00 AM. Reason: wrong links. left out info.

  5. #5
    Tosai
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    Later today I will ask some owners and see how they felt about the judging of the show. I will post what I gather.

  6. #6
    Jumbo HenryC's Avatar
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    First, we did not even start judging until after 10:00am so there is no way results were posted at 10:00am. If results were posted at 10:00am it was not for the show we were judging. Their was the American Breeders show the day before and the results could have been from that show.

    This show had 28 of the 30 AKCA Judges judging the show. I think you will learn that if you knew what you are talking about, there was no favors being given to a certain person because a judge knew them. It just does not happen. The judges came from all over the country (at our own expense) and if any judge knew the owner of a Koi, the majority of the other judges did not.

    The discussions on which Koi should take GC were just that, discussions. Just because you heard a few judges discussing the merits of one particular Koi over another, it did not mean that either would actually win the award. Again, there were 28 judges not just a few. Once we all reviewed and created our own lists of the top Koi to consider, we retired to a private area to discuss them further. The choices made for Grand Champion, Reserve Champion and Mature were made by secret ballot and required a 2/3 majority to win. If a 2/3 majority was not made in the first round of voting, the top 2 Koi were voted on and discussed until a 2/3 majority was reached. The choices took only 1 round of voting and was overwelming for the final result.

    If you take the time to get to know the AKCA judges versus damning them, you will find your complaints are totally without merit. If you do not understand the order the Koi were placed in, ask one of the judges. We would be happy to discuss them.
    Henry

    Orlando, FL

  7. #7
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out how it would even be possible for any results to have been posted in the morning Judging would have still had a long time to go in a show the size of San Diego.

    As to Judges talking to entrants about how fish placed and why, that is one of the educational aspects of a Koi Show. Once the judging is over and the votes are tallied there is no further need for the judges not to talk about the fish with the entrants. I hope you and your friend take advantage of the opportunity to go on the Judges Walk-Around this morning to hear what they have to say. It could help to dispel any misunderstanding that there may be.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  8. #8
    Tategoi Lomaponder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryC View Post
    First, we did not even start judging until after 10:00am so there is no way results were posted at 10:00am. If results were posted at 10:00am it was not for the show we were judging. Their was the American Breeders show the day before and the results could have been from that show.

    This show had 28 of the 30 AKCA Judges judging the show. I think you will learn that if you knew what you are talking about, there was no favors being given to a certain person because a judge knew them. It just does not happen. The judges came from all over the country (at our own expense) and if any judge knew the owner of a Koi, the majority of the other judges did not.

    The discussions on which Koi should take GC were just that, discussions. Just because you heard a few judges discussing the merits of one particular Koi over another, it did not mean that either would actually win the award. Again, there were 28 judges not just a few. Once we all reviewed and created our own lists of the top Koi to consider, we retired to a private area to discuss them further. The choices made for Grand Champion, Reserve Champion and Mature were made by secret ballot and required a 2/3 majority to win. If a 2/3 majority was not made in the first round of voting, the top 2 Koi were voted on and discussed until a 2/3 majority was reached. The choices took only 1 round of voting and was overwelming for the final result.

    If you take the time to get to know the AKCA judges versus damning them, you will find your complaints are totally without merit. If you do not understand the order the Koi were placed in, ask one of the judges. We would be happy to discuss them.

    First sir, Thank you, and all the other judges, for making the commitment in time and expense to judge. I believe (and heard 10 or so others comment) that this was an excellent field of fish and task of deciding made that much more difficult. Again, Thank you to you and your fellow judges.

    Second, to the whole reason that this thread was generated; I can only quote Plato:


    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."

  9. #9
    Oyagoi gspotmc's Avatar
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    newbie starting to make some noise. It hte judging started at 10:00 there is no way that they will be able to finish that early.

  10. #10
    Jumbo HenryC's Avatar
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    Was the Koi that your friend had move from 2nd to 3rd a size 1 Gin Rin A (kohaku, sanke, Showa)? If so I know why you may think it was moved after results were final. First , the results were not final. Towards the end of judging, the show staff realized a GR Sanke did not get entered. We were asked to go back and re-judge size 1 GR A. The new GR Sanke was clearly 2nd place. That would have moved the previous 2nd place Koi to 3rd.

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