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Outside Where to take it when you just can't be civil anymore...for threads that have become a little "too much" for our regular threads. We still reserve the right to shut it down when things have gone too far.

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Old 07-16-2009   #451 (permalink)
Honmei
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,016
niji, I read your post and became concerned that I have lost your vote? I thought we had deveopled a working friendship?

As regards my client list, it is illegal for me to divulge my client list. And we would need to respect their privacy even it it were legal. I'm sure you can understand this ( or maybe you can't?). If you need more clarification just ask.

I'd like to stay on the topic of what I can do for koiphen and how my platform can improve things. Do you have any further questions on the subject at hand? I'm sure we have enough time for one or two more questions from you.
JR Candidate for change and hope.
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Old 07-16-2009   #452 (permalink)
Nisai
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 84
Like a true politician you skate around the questions!

AGAIN I ask"

How can you run for an office if you are not a member of the WWKC and secondly, of all these people who have given you their vote How many of them are current WWKC members?

Also, as a WWKC member I would like to know what you have done in the past 2 years for our club "Besides these off the cuff postings" ?
What committees have you served on if any and what have you contributed if anything to better the WWKC in said time frame? I'll answer NONE


Please do not count on my vote! I have seen the kind of leadership that the AKCA has right now and I want NO part of it! I really think you need to turn your attentions towards your own club the AKCA and try to bring it out of the mud hole it has dug for itself! Also, I would suggest that there be a house cleaning in the AKCA Judge area! JMO

POUND MEMEBER OF THE WWKC AND KOIPHEN!
Committee Chair Woman of the 2009 WWKC Virtual Koi & Goldfish Show
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Old 07-16-2009   #453 (permalink)
Tosai
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadySusan View Post
Like a true politician you skate around the questions!

AGAIN I ask"

How can you run for an office if you are not a member of the WWKC and secondly, of all these people who have given you their vote How many of them are current WWKC members?

Also, as a WWKC member I would like to know what you have done in the past 2 years for our club "Besides these off the cuff postings" ?
What committees have you served on if any and what have you contributed if anything to better the WWKC in said time frame? I'll answer NONE


Please do not count on my vote! I have seen the kind of leadership that the AKCA has right now and I want NO part of it! I really think you need to turn your attentions towards your own club the AKCA and try to bring it out of the mud hole it has dug for itself! Also, I would suggest that there be a house cleaning in the AKCA Judge area! JMO

POUND MEMEBER OF THE WWKC AND KOIPHEN!
Committee Chair Woman of the 2009 WWKC Virtual Koi & Goldfish Show
pHen, pHen, pHen, pHen, pHen

Did I mention how much a love that name. It just fits oh so well.

Another member that makes WWKC look ridiculous. Had I only known....

If I hold out long enough, JR has my official WWKC vote. Now I wonder who will be counting those votes. We may need to bring in Jimmy Carter and a UN team to assure a fair election.


JR for President of WWKC !!!!!!!!
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Old 07-16-2009   #454 (permalink)
Nisai
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Hi JR,

Yes you and I can have a working relationship. That was my intentions all along, however I had hoped things would improve from the moment I proposed that and instead they have gone the other direction so far. Not you, but those around, have levied insult after insult and accusation after accusation at me because I stated my real and honest concerns.

I understand the legality issues, however it is still a very real concern and hidden area, maybe due do the nature of that it might be inappropriate due to clearly very easy conflicts of interest to arise, to just keep your current position in the hobby rather than running for a public office. I think to gain my and the public's trust you would have to prove to me that there is no relationship that presents conflicts of interest to you or may apply pressure on you in some way. Offices and their powers are often misused. That is one of my main concerns with you, and has been since before chat forums even existed.

Also to clarify, koi keeping is a hobby. Koi shows are a business that beneifts from koi keeper's attendance. Being a judge and a voice of influence in the hobby places you dead in the center of the business of it like it or not. Almost every one of those speaking up for you on this thread are people who have long drawn pretty good revenues from the business side of it. Especially the ones so agressive to insult and accost others and belittle Stephen. Their behaviour is aggravating the situation instead of making improvement in your relations with him possible. I honestly think it could be worked out if the public comments could cease and a third party who understands both sides concerns could facilitate resolution meetings and agreements to make a framework for lasting peace.

So you know, I have had no contact with him yet now for about two years, and have not received any type of defamatory emails about anyone related to this. The only defamations I see are occurring right on this thread. Brian has long a been a good hearted person to everyone he could and sought to keep the peace, as has Stephen in my opinion. As far as I know Brian is not banned from Koiphen, so maybe that is an issue causing feelings that jnorth, Brian, and Stephen can work on over time. All of these things are sort of knotted together now, and hard to undo it all or seperate it, as war has already broken out. I am willing to help arbitrate and promote peace, and if you camp wants to be seen respectfully and as seeking peace themselves, then those concerns definitely need addressed. I made a promise to you and I will keep it. Maybe you could ask your friends to refrain from trying to publicly assess or insult me or others as it will only aggravate the already troubled relations? I don't think that is a wise thing for schild or any other established leadership voice to be engaged in no matter if they are right or wrong.

In my opinion, you would better serve as a respected consultant to those in power rather than being in power yourself, especially given the nature of your work and laws that restrain you from clearing the concerns of very real possible conflicts of interest. From that position you could arbitrate alot more working relationships and peace than by being a ruler imo. Outside of that I see no way for you establish that there are no conflicts of interest in a way the public can have confidence about the issue. Unless your clients would sign a waiver to allow you disclose things so that you may run for office with a cleared name. It already presents a conflict of interest for you, and I think it is unfair to voters to ask them to just blindly trust with no verifiable facts as to those arrrangements. You may wish to reconsider your tact towards consulting instead of public office, just to avoid that situation for the sake of the hobby. Even the appearance of impropriety can hurt the hobby as a whole and discourage interest.

I also think it is going to be very hard to win those offended by what happened to Karen into wanting to see those around you with one more ounce of influence than they already have. Something should be done about that other than defending what you and I know were biased and unfair actions, weeding out a gnat a swallow a camel. I know it was not you who did it, but unfortunately for you those so quick to surround you were at the dead center of those malicious acts. I for one cannot envision a growing hobby with EVERYONE happy and being treated fairly with them in power. Their attitude reflects an injustice and unwillingness to hear anyone else, only wanting to defend the unhappy status quo they have created with thier own hands and words.

Now maybe you understand more how stephen might feel, being caught in the fray of so many controversies and being blamed for things he was not the author of, and simply trying to find a way to move forward without bowing to injustice or letting the innocent be trampled. Stephen is not responsible for any of my actions or words, they are all my own observations over two decades of observing all of this, from before any of these forums even existed. Right now I feel that your crew is making more trouble for you than good. I don't see how their attitudes can bring good honestly. Maybe it is time for a changing of the guard, and maybe Stephen's work is the best and most viable vehicle for that, regardless of how you may see him.

I personally would not agree with either Nancy or karen being ousted cruelly, they both love the hobby and tend to push the masses towards their trusted vendors. That tendancy may need some adressing, but karen is far from the most guilty one in that arena and we both know that. If you want healing between the two camps, then I would think instead of internet posts defending something that is clearly messed up, they ought to be issuing a letter of apology and also extending an olive branch to her and those hurt by it, and also dealing with others in their midst who are far more guilty of those things. Neither of us are stupid, but in my opinion that group will drag your candidacy down if they don't change their posture drastically.

You are going to have to rise above a bunch of hard things for you, that have issues nipping at your heels for many years, to succeed in your current goals. I for one think you have what it takes to do it inside of you, you have grown over the years, but you still have to take those real steps and do it. I for one know you are not young, and do not want to see your legacy clouded with dishonor or concerns of conflicts of interest in your closing phases. I want you to have a better finish in your life than that.
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Old 07-16-2009   #455 (permalink)
Honmei
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,016
Lady Susan, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way about me, as I'm only trying to affect positive change in our organization?

I think I explained the first part?
As for how many WWKC people have contacted me publically or privately is confidential ( as all votes are) but I can tell you it is more than I would have expected. I am humbled by these folks and only hope I can live up to their expectations.

Again based on my tract record withy other organizations and boards, I can tell you I would have done a lot if a small band of folks would tear down those walls and let people like me contribute.

Well I'm not an officer in AKCA so I assume you are pointing to me with those particularly mean comments? And I'm well aware of your hatred towards, AKCA, AKCA judges, KOI USA, KOI SHACK, Koi this, koi that and anything else that comes to mind that isn't koiphen centric. That is your right--- to hate. And I can't agree with that speech. But I will fight to the death for your right to say it.
Sorry I could not win your vote. Hopeful the others with out number you. But at the end of the day, let the best person for the job win.

JR, Candidate for hope and change at the WWKC
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Old 07-16-2009   #456 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 2,512
Sorry JR but it appears that a full scale riot has broke out on the campaign trail so this one is going to be closed. Try again in a couple days when everyone has a chance to cool down.
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