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Thread: Obamacare

  1. #1
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Obamacare

    In Toronto Star Today
    21 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare

    by RALPH NADER
    Dear America:
    Costly complexity is baked into Obamacare. No health insurance system is without problems but Canadian style single-payer full Medicare for all is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal.
    In the early 1960s, President Lyndon Johnson enrolled 20 million elderly Americans into Medicare in six months. There were no websites. They did it with index cards!
    Below please find 21 Ways the Canadian Health Care System is Better than Obamacare.
    Repeal Obamacare and replace it with the much more efficient single-payer, everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital.
    Love, Canada
    Number 21:
    In Canada, everyone is covered automatically at birth – everybody in, nobody out.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, 31 million Americans will still be uninsured by 2023 and millions more will remain underinsured.
    Number 20:
    In Canada, the health system is designed to put people, not profits, first.
    In the United States, Obamacare will do little to curb insurance industry profits and will actually enhance insurance industry profits.
    Number 19:
    In Canada, coverage is not tied to a job or dependent on your income – rich and poor are in the same system, the best guaranty of quality.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, much still depends on your job or income. Lose your job or lose your income, and you might lose your existing health insurance or have to settle for lesser coverage.
    Number 18:
    In Canada, health care coverage stays with you for your entire life.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, for tens of millions of Americans, health care coverage stays with you for as long as you can afford your share.
    Number 17:
    In Canada, you can freely choose your doctors and hospitals and keep them. There are no lists of “in-network” vendors and no extra hidden charges for going “out of network.”
    In the United States, under Obamacare, the in-network list of places where you can get treated is shrinking – thus restricting freedom of choice – and if you want to go out of network, you pay for it.
    Number 16:
    In Canada, the health care system is funded by income, sales and corporate taxes that, combined, are much lower than what Americans pay in premiums.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, for thousands of Americans, it’s pay or die – if you can’t pay, you die. That’s why many thousands will still die every year under Obamacare from lack of health insurance to get diagnosed and treated in time.
    Number 15:
    In Canada, there are no complex hospital or doctor bills. In fact, usually you don’t even see a bill.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, hospital and doctor bills will still be terribly complex, making it impossible to discover the many costly overcharges.
    Number 14:
    In Canada, costs are controlled. Canada pays 10 percent of its GDP for its health care system, covering everyone.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, costs continue to skyrocket. The U.S. currently pays 18 percent of its GDP and still doesn’t cover tens of millions of people.
    Number 13:
    In Canada, it is unheard of for anyone to go bankrupt due to health care costs.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, health care driven bankruptcy will continue to plague Americans.
    Number 12:
    In Canada, simplicity leads to major savings in administrative costs and overhead.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, complexity will lead to ratcheting up administrative costs and overhead.
    Number 11:
    In Canada, when you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing they ask you is: “What’s wrong?”
    In the United States, the first thing they ask you is: “What kind of insurance do you have?”
    Number 10:
    In Canada, the government negotiates drug prices so they are more affordable.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, Congress made it specifically illegal for the government to negotiate drug prices for volume purchases, so they remain unaffordable.
    Number 9:
    In Canada, the government health care funds are not profitably diverted to the top one percent.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, health care funds will continue to flow to the top. In 2012, CEOs at six of the largest insurance companies in the U.S. received a total of $83.3 million in pay, plus benefits.
    Number 8:
    In Canada, there are no necessary co-pays or deductibles.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, the deductibles and co-pays will continue to be unaffordable for many millions of Americans.
    Number 7:
    In Canada, the health care system contributes to social solidarity and national pride.
    In the United States, Obamacare is divisive, with rich and poor in different systems and tens of millions left out or with sorely limited benefits.
    Number 6:
    In Canada, delays in health care are not due to the cost of insurance.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, patients without health insurance or who are underinsured will continue to delay or forgo care and put their lives at risk.
    Number 5:
    In Canada, nobody dies due to lack of health insurance.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, many thousands will continue to die every year due to lack of health insurance.
    Number 4:
    In Canada, an increasing majority supports their health care system, which costs half as much, per person, as in the United States. And in Canada, everyone is covered.
    In the United States, a majority – many for different reasons – oppose Obamacare.
    Number 3:
    In Canada, the tax payments to fund the health care system are progressive – the lowest 20 percent pays 6 percent of income into the system while the highest 20 percent pays 8 percent.
    In the United States, under Obamacare, the poor pay a larger share of their income for health care than the affluent.
    Number 2:
    In Canada, the administration of the system is simple. You get a health care card when you are born. And you swipe it when you go to a doctor or hospital. End of story.
    In the United States, Obamacare’s 2,500 pages plus regulations (the Canadian Medicare Bill was 13 pages) is so complex that then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said before passage “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”
    Number 1:
    In Canada, the majority of citizens love their health care system.
    In the United States, the majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – single-payer, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out.
    For more information see Single Payer Action at www.singlepayeraction.org.
    Ralph Nader is a consumer advocate, lawyer and author of Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us! He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion, published by AK Press. Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition.

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  2. #2
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    You know what...I favor the single payer system. It is easier, cheaper and more efficient. Unfortunately..not going to happen at all. The insurance companies have way too much money and power in our country. It is crazy to even think there is a chance it might happen. The ultimate goal is to give all American citizens health care coverage. I have seen improvements under Obamacare. The expansion of Medicaid services has given coverage to many who had nothing. The system is far from perfect...as is any health care system. But, it is a step in the right direction. In 20yrs, people will look back and see it as a great improvement...along the lines of medicare and social security. The short sighted will not see it...but, this is for the long run. The need was there...and I am very glad Obama kept his promise and put through a health care plan.


    If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    You know what...I favor the single payer system. It is easier, cheaper and more efficient. Unfortunately..not going to happen at all. The insurance companies have way too much money and power in our country. It is crazy to even think there is a chance it might happen. The ultimate goal is to give all American citizens health care coverage. I have seen improvements under Obamacare. The expansion of Medicaid services has given coverage to many who had nothing. The system is far from perfect...as is any health care system. But, it is a step in the right direction. In 20yrs, people will look back and see it as a great improvement...along the lines of medicare and social security. The short sighted will not see it...but, this is for the long run. The need was there...and I am very glad Obama kept his promise and put through a health care plan.
    If I was a citizen of the US I would be asking why our health care is 18% of GDP or 3 trillion and double the cost of European or Canada health services. This is amounts to an inefficiency of 1500 billion $ yearly.
    That figure would be greatly reduced by a Universal system as insurance would be eliminated.
    With an ageing population the cost is going to go even higher dragging down the US economy.
    Regards
    Eugene

  4. #4
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    If I was a citizen of the US I would be asking why our health care is 18% of GDP or 3 trillion and double the cost of European or Canada health services. This is amounts to an inefficiency of 1500 billion $ yearly.
    That figure would be greatly reduced by a Universal system as insurance would be eliminated.
    With an ageing population the cost is going to go even higher dragging down the US economy.
    Regards
    Eugene
    Your question is easily answered. Our system costs so much (in part) due to trial lawyers and malpractice lawsuits. Doctors order expensive tests they often don't feel are necessary.... just to cover their asses in the event of a lawsuit. There is also a lot of fraud with doctors billing for tests and work that wasn't even preformed, especially when Medicaid and Medicare are picking up the bill. Our government has grown much to big to be run efficiently and it will only get much worse under Obamacare. The corrupt Democrats won't even consider tort reform to limit the amount of monetary damages when doctors like Brutus screw up......because trial lawyers contribute heavily to their reelection campaigns. Quid pro quo I believe is what you call it. We are a country whose elected officials put their own enrichment ahead of the good of the country. Both parties do that and it isn't likely to change anytime soon.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Man is a wily creature. No system, no matter how well-intentioned, can ever escape man's inborn desire to outsmart the system. It would have been fine as man's ability to wreak havoc is only limited by his short lifespan. But corporations given rights as man and outliving man, yet with no conscience to rein in its desire for profit, has turned civilization on its head. Man is now serving its needs. Man is no different from the worker termite in service to its queen, a position always quickly filled upon its death, ensuring perpetuity.

    The politicians, lobbyists, doctors, lawyers, nurses, hospital administrators, healthcare providers, and patients are mere pawns to the corporations that form a complex web of interrelationships that cannot be untangled. Look at the huge edifices called hospitals, never ceasing to add new wings. The enormous profits from these "nonprofits" are used to construct a modern equivalent of the pyramids, a living reminder to man's enslavement to the system.

    This system is slowly being exported to the world, and the rest of the world is all earnestly spreading its legs wide as it takes in the good doctor's prescription.
    Brian likes this.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyfish View Post
    You can get excellent care in US IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY
    But what about the over 2 million in US that had to declare bankrupcy because of health care and none in Canada
    Regards
    Eugene

  8. #8
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    You can get excellent care in US IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY
    Yep. And you can have the money if you actually had a job.

  9. #9
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Why is it that non- English speaking immigrants can come to this country and work, save, be productive citizens and contribute- yet we have 25 year old healthy males that are 3rd generation welfare recipients sapping up the welfare? I see it everyday in my profession of appliance repair. Nothing like going into a HUD house (housing paid for by the government- which is really paid in part by me being a taxpayer) to see a lazy, healthy men sitting on a leather couch (undoubtably rented from Rent-a-center) watching a big screen TV while sipping on a ice cold bottled beer and smoking a cigarette. Ah gotta love America! Sit on your ass and get housing, utilities, transportaion, phone, healthcare, food and other perks!

    This Obama bullshit is just another way of redistribution of wealth. Plain and simple. Take money from hard working taxpayers and give it to lazy assholes who do nothing for our country.

    In the old days when people needed a hand we had a little thing called CHURCH. If the Church couldn't help, the community helped. Nowadays it's a free for all. The government will provide for you.... and your 6 kids.... and their kids..... and their kids. Yep third generation welfare recipients. Ya mean in 20 years you couldn't find a job? Oh that's right, you really don't want a job! Lazy assholes.

    This is not about assisting elderly or sick people that really need healthcare. It's about redistribution of wealth. Taking money from me to pay for someone elses shit. How else can it be explained why as part of the Obummercare program- excuse me- The Affordable Healthcare Act- why maternity care is manadatory part of every insurance policy? Oh I know why, so my wife and I can pay for some 16 year old to give birth to another generation of welfare recipients.

    I always thpought that one went to school (public btw), got a job, saved money for lean times, paid for healthcare, and took care of themselves so others didn't have to. But those days are gone. Now we have entitlement. "We're entiltled to free healthcare, we're entitled to housing, we're entitled to a free cell phone." Grown men claiming they can't find a job- bullshit! Their too damn lazy to WANT a job. Why would they anyway? Everything's paid for them.

    So now we have gotten to the point that we've allowed so many to get away with this for so long that is crashing our system. America is a land of opportunity. Why is it that America is STILL the number one country in the world that people aspire to belong to. Well it used to be because America was an opportunity.

    I've got some simple ideas for healthcare and welfare. First- mandatory drug testing. Why the hell I should have to pay welfare or healthcare for a smoker is beyond me. If you can afford cigaretes, you can afford heathcare. If you can drink alcohol and be merry, you can afford healthcare. If you can afford drugs, you can afford healthcare. Plain and simple. It's awesome to see someone smoking a cigarette and eating fast food claiming that they can't afford healthcare.

    So let's be realistic here, this program is intended to take from productive taxpaying citizens and giving it to lazy, don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, unproductive citizens. I know, Eugene and Bruto are going to claim old, sick, weak and blah, blah, blah.... Get real dude. Come with me to the hood and see where all the money is going to. Lazy ass Americans that want something for nothing.

    Meanwhile I'm working 60 hours a week or more running my own business- I pay for my own housing, food, utilities, transportation, phones, healthcare, taxes and and endless barrage of taxes. Sit on your lazy asses America- you'll get paid to do so!

    So how did Obummer get voted in office? Simple. When you have provided for everything for someone they have no incentive. We've provided enough for long enough that those folks kept breeding and producing even more welfare recipients. Then that generation kept breeding, and so on. Well great. Now we have a majority population that knows nothing other than free, free, free.... Third genration welfare population. Keep on breeding folks, Obama will care for you as long as you vote for him.

  10. #10
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyfish View Post
    Your question is easily answered. Our system costs so much (in part) due to trial lawyers and malpractice lawsuits. Doctors order expensive tests they often don't feel are necessary.... just to cover their asses in the event of a lawsuit. There is also a lot of fraud with doctors billing for tests and work that wasn't even preformed, especially when Medicaid and Medicare are picking up the bill. Our government has grown much to big to be run efficiently and it will only get much worse under Obamacare. The corrupt Democrats won't even consider tort reform to limit the amount of monetary damages when doctors like Brutus screw up......because trial lawyers contribute heavily to their reelection campaigns. Quid pro quo I believe is what you call it. We are a country whose elected officials put their own enrichment ahead of the good of the country. Both parties do that and it isn't likely to change anytime soon.
    First of all...your a complete idiot!! In 16+years, not one legal issue ever. Do you job properly, and things go well. Corrupt democrats...that is truly a laugh. Hows your chubby friend chris Christy doing in Jersey?? Yup...no corruption in the GOP...LOL!!!! Our gov't size is not the issue at all. It is private insurance companies with too much power!! So much for a free market system...does NOT work in health care at all!!! Eugene is right...a single payer system would be much better and cheaper. But, the GOP would never let it happen. Their rich insurance buddies would make sure of that. As far as tests ordered and such...what do you know about it?? I did not think you were a doctor?? Seems you know it all though!!! Obamcare will be something we look back at in the future and realize what a great idea it was. Short sighted people need to be ignored. They only hold us back. If we actually listened to them..we would probably still have slavery and no voting rights for women. Still a dream for the teabaggers and conservatards!!

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