Leroy Taba on the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by koicluboftheair So true. Most people enjoy the hobby outside of any involvement in a club, which I hope changes.

Hahahahaha. Does that mean you don't want the people outside of a club to enjoy the hobby anymore?

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Hahahahaha. Does that mean you don't want the people outside of a club to enjoy the hobby anymore?

Nay say jumbo

[Akai-San]

I think anyone that is "serious" about starting into any hobby would be crazy not to affiliate themselves with people or associations with far more experience and expertise in the hobby of choice. Its just the smart thing to do. Clubs are great for individuals wanting help to get the ball rolling in the right direction. Good people helping good people. Allowing the newbie to save a lot of heart-ache, frustration, time and money in the long run.

Then again, each hobbiest have different reasons for joining clubs (want to learn about koi, just want a maintainable pond or water feature for house, just want pet fish to grow on property lake, just want a biological water garden, etc.) All the expertises can be found in a koi club. Probably a minority group, yet they exist.

How many out there started with a aquarium or water garden with comets, goldfish, guppies, mollies, etc., then progressed to a small pond, then medium sized koi pond with filtration, a now have full blown koi ponds and Q-tanks with filter management and monitoring systems? We all know that its just a matter of time before the KOIKICHI catches you. HANAPA!

It is the same as the B-O-A-T Theory.
Buy a small dingy, sell small dingy and buy small boat. Sell small boat and buy multi-purpose boat. Sell multi-purpose boat and buy the tricked out fishing boat you originally wanted. Hey, what does B-O-A-T stand for......

BUSS OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND! HAHAHA...

JUST LIKE KOI! Hahaha...

[koicluboftheair]

Koi club organizational structure began in Hawaii not Japan. Thus, the tradition is American whether one wants to do demographic studies to determine the extent to which it is Japanese-American or not. As club organization is American then there should be no expectation that American hobbyists accept ad hoc versus clear concise written organizational structure.
That in no way takes away from the accomplishments of the Japanese in Hawaii who were involved in founding the first club or the Japanese living in Japan and raising coveted koi prior to ’59 or after. While AKCA may have copied some of the structure from the Japanese organizations that would have been a choice, but considering the historic realities of the first club dating back to Hawaii it would seem inappropriate to excuse weaknesses in structure claiming the hobby is Japanese, which disrespects their own freedom from the rule of an emperor and present circumstance governed by a Constitution that the U.S. oversaw the installation of after WWII.

[MikeM]

Huh??? Lot of non sequiturs there, I think.

Did someone other than you say there was organizational weakness in the U.S.? I missed it, if so.

AKCA's structure did not copy much of anything from Japan. It is more like the U.S. under the Articles of Confederation. AKCA is not a club. It is an affiliation of clubs. ZNA, Rinyukai, etc are clubs, not federations of clubs.

I'm not aware of anyone posting comments disrespectful of Japanese contributions. I do think your post has a bit of a xenophobic quality to it and some misplaced nationalism, perhaps?

I'm beginning to wonder whether you've started getting on all the boards with these pot-stirring threads because your show's ratings have gotten too low.

[koicluboftheair]

“AKCA's structure did not copy much of anything from Japan. It is more like the U.S. under the Articles of Confederation. AKCA is not a club. It is an affiliation of clubs. ZNA, Rinyukai, etc are clubs, not federations of clubs,” MikeM wrote.

Really? AKCA did not copy anything from Japan? I appreciate your insight here into the history of the foundation of AKCA, but I suspect much was copied from the Japanese model after that first club was established in Hawaii. If you can share some of the history of how the structure was established I’d appreciate it?

It is xenophobic to try to verify the history of koi hobby and organizational roots? You write that AKCA’s structure did not copy much of anything from Japan, which causes me to remind you what Goforth wrote in, “…it is a Japanese hobby to begin with;they invented it, set the rules and standards for it, and although some may disagree, I for my part feel that it is no longer the same hobby when those rules and standards become changed because we either haven’t learned to, or don’t choose to understand them. For my part, I prefer to remain with the original emphasis placed by the hobby’s creators.”

Verifying the history of those rules and standards seems to me to appeal to the utmost respect and appreciation for the koi hobby’s integrity and significance.

[MikeM]

John, much of what constitutes the koi hobby in the West (whether the U.S. or Europe or U.K.) has been imported from Japan, but not the AKCA structure. Perhaps you do not realize how tangled your subjects always become, but I'm thinking it may be willful avoidance of logic. Maybe you should do some reading on a subject before you post on a topic as if you know something about it.

[koicluboftheair]

Provide some definitive sources on the subject. Provide me any links on the web that document in an official manner the history of AKCA as an organization and detail its organizational structure. Then I'll read them, talk about them on the Koi Club of the Air, write about them, and pose more questions. That would be much more worthwhile than reading arguments claiming I avoid logic and should read before posting on a message board designed for the purpose of interactive communications.

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM John, much of what constitutes the koi hobby in the West (whether the U.S. or Europe or U.K.) has been imported from Japan, but not the AKCA structure. Perhaps you do not realize how tangled your subjects always become, but I'm thinking it may be willful avoidance of logic. Maybe you should do some reading on a subject before you post on a topic as if you know something about it.

[RayJordan]

Here are some of the relevent dates listed in Kuroki's Manual to Nishikigoi published in 1981, p271 for the oldest amature koi keepers societies in Japan. Prior to that time all koi organizations were for professional breeders/dealers.

1955 - Nippon Nishigoi Society (Niigata area)
1956 - Western Hiroshima Koi Friends Society (Hiroshima area)
1962 - Oita Airinkai
1965 - Western Hiroshima Koi Friends and Oita Airinkai united and name changed to Western Nippon Airinkai
1965-1966 - Koi Societies from, Chugoku, SHikoku, Kansai, and Kyushu joined WNA.
1968 - WNA changed name to Zen Nippon Airinkai (1968)

[schildkoi]

That should just about let all of the steam out of any points John had as regards to the history of clubs and koi and thus the standards. Thanks.

Steve