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Old 12-08-2006   #1 (permalink)
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Differences

Based on some ongoing threads that became comlicated and possibly confusing to some due to an apparent inquisition by a "journalist," let me attempt to clarify a few things.

Judging "Standards" are different than judging "processes". "Judging standards are the standards to which a Koi are "graded". Judging processes are the mehods employed for the judges to judge the koi by the "standard."

Each Hobbyist judging organization has it own "standards" but all have been derived from the original ZNA standards. They are substantially similar and off the top of my head I cannot think of any disparities between ZNA and AKCA judging standards. Benching standards within the US have changed some such as Kiko Kuryu being classified into Kawaigoi in a ZNA show and into Kawaimoyo in an AKCA show.

The "Shinkokai" is a professional organization of Koi breeders and Dealers. They do not have formalized judging standards. When judging they use their own experience, and "outlook" on what a Koi should be. A difference that "can" occur in this process is that hobbyists judge will look on the koi for the day while a Breeder based on thier experience may look at future potential as well, or at least their "guess" at future potential since this is what they do when breeding and culling. This is not to say that this is always the case either.

As far as judging processes or procedures, this is set by the show itself and portions there of may be passed to the head judge for his determination at some shows. This may (or may not include) who is to judge what, how each judge's opinion/vote is wieghted and the order in which the koi are to be judged.

Receiving an "award" whether monetary or otherwise for winning a koi show has absolutley nothing to do with the hobbyists status of being a "professional" which is derived from proffesional "dealer" status or not.

Each club show has rules that govern the status of Hobbyist verses Professional dealer. The club sets those rules.

These rules are in place regarding Dealers to help to maintain a level playing field and so as to not use the Koi show as a "direct" marketing event for professionals at the expense of the hobbyist. This is typically not a problem within the reputable, established dealer community but has been the case with some backyard dealers in the past for some shows.

There is a difference between an AKCA "club" and a ZNA club show since all ZNA shows are goverened by the same club, ZNA.

The AKCA clubs should not be construed as "1 big club". The AKCA is a group of clubs, all "Associated" together. Thus each club can choose as to what their specific rules are, in this case dealer status or not. The AKCA offers a "guide" to the clubs in this regard, but since each club is seperate they have the right to choose their own specific definition(s).

A good correllation in retail grocery would be IGA stores. All independently owned (perhaps even in groups) but using the same "banner" for marketing and financial leveraging. Each manages themselves just the same as each AKCA club manages themself.

I believe most could have delinated the above based on their knowledge and understandings of the processes, but for those that couldn't and for those that may have become confused, the above should work as a good guideline in understandng these relationships.

Steve

I guess I ought to add my disclaimer just in case.

The views presented are those of mine alone unless otherwise specified. They are not necessarily the views of any organization that I may be a part of. Any complaints to any content of my posts should be directed to me personally at schildkoi@aol.com
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Old 12-08-2006   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks Steve for starting a new thread and clearly listing the points above.

I suggest that if you have specific questions about a specific show you should direct your questions directly to that club's President or Show Chairman. Links to viturally all U.S. Clubs and shows can be found at www.akca.org
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Old 12-08-2006   #3 (permalink)
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Steve . . .

thank you for clearly and concisely laying out those facts. Now even an 'air head' should be able to keep from tangling the threads.

PS -- You really do not need your disclaimer here. I think everybody (well, almost everybody ) gets it.
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Old 12-08-2006   #4 (permalink)
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No, Don, I disagree. An air head simply skips along to the next tangle.
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Old 12-08-2006   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJordan View Post
Thanks Steve for starting a new thread and clearly listing the points above.

I suggest that if you have specific questions about a specific show you should direct your questions directly to that club's President or Show Chairman. Links to viturally all U.S. Clubs and shows can be found at www.akca.org

Good point Ray. There probably shouldn't be any talk on these boards about the various koi clubs activities unless you are providing specific quotes from that org. Where can you actually find the comments of club reps talking about their events?
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Old 12-08-2006   #6 (permalink)
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As Ray would say.....

Troll Alert.
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Old 12-08-2006   #7 (permalink)
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Just something I have wondered.

How is it possible for the japanese breeders to enter a koi into the AJKS? and breeders not being able to do the same here?
I am probably not getting all of the information. I would like to see a section in american shows have a GC and Runner up GC from dealers. It would be a fun thing for many to enjoy and it would preserve a hobbyists roll in the show.
I may have just answered my question concerning the japanese breeders and AJKS.
Is there a slot for breeders fish at English (american) koi shows, if not are there any plans to implement one? I think it would be fun.

This is just something that I have wondered about for a long time, I am not trying to start anything bad.
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Old 12-08-2006   #8 (permalink)
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Lil Dude

There are actually 2 All Japan Koi shows, one in January put on by the Shinkokai (dealer Breeders' association) and the other in November put on by the ZNA (Hobbyist organization). Dealers/breeders are NOT allowed to show in the ZNA All Japan show since it is a "hobbyist" show. Most shows in the US are AKCA and/or ZNA which are also Hobbyist shows which restrict dealer/breeder entries. Make sense?

Steve
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Old 12-08-2006   #9 (permalink)
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Troll Alert.
Dive! Dive! Dive!
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Old 12-08-2006   #10 (permalink)
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Very well explained Steve.

rgds BERN
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