KOI vs HERD

[cppond]

Quote: Originally Posted by dinh Some time we all need to include some short of reference for the point you want to make. But reading JR's about post again, I can't find any personal attachs from JR in his post, can you lighten me where is personal attachs in there? --Dinh

Here you go, Dinh. This is just from this thread. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the insulting and derogatory references.

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR I understand the dark lord is drinking water at the moment so naturally Carl is unable to speak up right now! JR

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Carl, as apologist for the dark lord, you need to understand that there were others before you. How you enforce or apologize for the cultist movement may be unique to you in your mind or acutally unique in it's approach. But we have seen others in the past take up the call and we can smell it a mile away. So ironically as you were imagining slight from Dinh we were wondering how you'd try and counter the imagined slight. It was fun to watch and you did an admirable job. Some one will be getting an 'atta boy'. JR

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Carl, I think you are confusing style with substance? I do poke fun at my opponents in debates. But I assure you, I always have my mind's eye on the goal. And the goal is always to educate and undermine bad information. I do play rough at times and it has cost me some reputation. But what good is reputation if it is kept lock up away from being dented and dinged for some greater goal? Take you for instance. I don't dislike you at all. But I call you Renfield. It is a perfect vehicle to illustrate a point. Bram Stoker included this important character in his Dracula novel for it is through Renfield that we learn about the dark lord, his intentions and nightly missions. But more importantly, as one reviewer wrote about Renfield : Renfield is a fascinating character that has been victimized by those who have deviated from the original novel. Renfield was not a grave robber. He was not a lackey for Dracula that scoured the night for victims. He was not Dracula's day time helper. Like Lucy and like Mina, Renfield was a victim...a victim of Dracula. So I try, in my 'fun making' to not only illustrate motives of my detractors but also to give them a message that will hopefully provide them perspective about their own predicaments. Carl I know you are too far in at this point but please reflect on my advise. What will ultimately make you different than three former guys in your role, six koi judges and a score of others that were thrown under the bus? Expecting a different outcome from the same set of facts is the definition of insanity. And Renfield was ultimately deranged by the circumstances he found himself in. And he was ultimately killed by his Dark Lord. A trip down memory lane for Steve: Grumpy Dr peach the purple cloud cult advise on putting koi in the freezer for winter ( avoiding chips along side fish) Deadwood 'the other parish' When in a hole, the first rule-- stop digging -- but I digress-- brown blood disease who really cares? salt , salt and more salt. The state of fish health in America today. koi keeping teaches humility all tategoi are unfinished fish, but not all unfinshed fish are tategoi ' how to properly over stock a pond--" Jungle George and his imaginary koi farm I will never invite you to my dinner table again! my nephew Tim koi are to fish as crows are to birds the I-pHD my beloved NI JR

[JasPR]

Carl I see you are being a lawyer here?

Dinh asked specifically about the post I made, not other responses. I know you can read well so I'm assuming you are being a lawyer now and spinning. One thing I do not tolerate well is spinning. Stay focused and answer Dinh's question. JR

[JasPR]

So read it again and try again-----

Powerman, I'm kinda with you in that if it makes people happy then what does a name matter? But on another level, the dumbing down of understanding of koi is typically part of the garden ponding culture in general.
It is many years ago now that the Koi Vet board was the center of the ponding universe. It once had a large following and was a very active place. In those days, there was an 'us against them' mentality as the owner and business man who created the board did not want what he perceived as snobbery, AKA- a proper koi ponding approach. Instead he saw koi as part of a populist movement in which turtles, frogs, plants, goldfish and other species were all part of a community pond. It was suggested that any proper focus on the koi was a form of extreme and snobbery. There were many battles fought over gravel in pond bottoms, no bottom drains, PP use and chronic baking soda support etc to keep fish alive from week to week. And the board was replete with pleas for help from one distressed ponder to another. Indeed, at one point, you would have thought that keeping koi was all about treating diseases?
So a few of us hung in, at the expense of our reputations, to do battle with the entrenched views of the garden pond community. And SLOWLY a core group of hobbyists began to see the light as a more focused koi hobbyist mentality was forged. Once garden ponders who are interested in koi get the big picture and a taste of the organized koi culture, it usually ends with less suffering ( on the part of the owner and the koi!) and an enlightened koi keeper begins to enjoy the hobby rather than struggle in the 'frogs and bogs' arena.

Ironically, another ponder type board took many of the migrating masses from koiVet. And initially it appeared to be about koi as a specific interest. But soon the innocent arrogance crept in there as well and the focus on proper koi keeping was once again lost.
So when we/I see parish colloguialisms such as 'herds' for a school or collection of koi, we see shades of regression to the murky garden pond world all over again.
I recently had a dealer tell me he had found a dosing pump from a marine fish keeping mail order catalog and he was designing a system to dose ponds with PP to keep ORP high. He got the idea from reading about ozone use in that other parish. To me this represents another leg in the wondering in the desert for another 3 years for many of those innocents over there and I asked him to not share that experiment. He knows it is a bad idea but knows that many would be on it like hungry dogs on a balony wagon.
To end this, I'd say that 'herd' is harmless but still represents how 'koi-lite' can be 'koi- dangerous' when examined in the context and perspective of garden ponders who are not too interested in a deeper understanding of their pets and changes. JR

[mstrseed]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond Here you go, Dinh. This is just from this thread. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the insulting and derogatory references.

If the shoe fit wear it.........

Come now Carl, are you so short sided to think the your boss is notheing short of what a dark lord is?????

He bans folks when he does not get his way or when they do not agree with him........oh least we forget when they speak there mind in a civil manner. Not to mention attempts to pick fight with them in PM's when he reads the PM's that they have sent to others in PRIVATE!!!!!!

Need I go on???

[schildkoi]

Dinh,
I hope you received some answers for your 3rd grader that makes sense. The rest is gobblty goop from some/one who just come over to stir the pot.

Steve

[cppond]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Carl I see you are being a lawyer here? Dinh asked specifically about the post I made, not other responses. I know you can read well so I'm assuming you are being a lawyer now and spinning. One thing I do not tolerate well is spinning. Stay focused and answer Dinh's question. JR

Dinh's question presumed that I was referring to the post immediately preceding mine. I was not. My criticism of your making personal attacks was not directed at the one post, but your behavior in general. But, if you think that my criticism is not valid unless you made a personal attack immediately preceding my post, than I guess you're right.

Look, you guys can rationalize your behavior any way you wish including any historical facts you may wish to dwell on. I made my point and I am sure that objective observers would agree. I am confident in my position and do not feel the need to continue to restate it.

However, by all means, tell us another story about the Dark Lord.

[JasPR]

Carl, you're an educated guy so I'm sure you understand the term projecting? As you know, projecting, as a physological term, refers to perscribing personal feelings or obsessions on to others. So a comment here or there has deeper and scewed meaning to the projecting observer.

Honest to heaven Carl, I do not have the dark lord or your board on my mind other then when it comes up in everyday chat on these boards. In effect, that board is in a state of cyberspace quarantine as far as most of us in the organized koi hobby see it at this point? But I do think that you and the dark lord do cruise or sit on most of these boards looking for and studying on words and phrases that might be taken as a slight. Most of the time they are just said in poking fun at the antics that come up regarding your group. It might be a tad mean spirited but really just passing fun. Now I may be guilty of projecting here myself, but somehow I kinda don't think so, as you truly do seem to be the guy that ' doth protest too much'.
When that board evetually atrophies, as I'm sure it will in the next 24-36 months, you are welcome to join any of the other boards or the actual koi hobby in real life, and you will hear no ' I told you so' from me. That's a promise. JR

[JasPR]

and finally, for those that are even tempted to believe Carl's bluff and bravado regarding his launching into the defense mode regarding Dinh's question, just read post #97 in which Carl pastes my post and then responds to it. In that first paragraph, he references 'herds' and 'koi-lite' and explains how these are insults, bad behavior and name calling. He then says in last post :

" Dinh's question presumed that I was referring to the post immediately preceding mine."

But he based his comments on my post that he cut and pasted in his post # 97? He then projected to what is in the hearts and minds of myself and other posters. Get it? Maybe it isn't a spin and maybe just an emotional projection? In either case the buttons are too easily pushed. Who's problem is that? JR

[Steve Nguyen]

for a moment there, I thought we were able to hijack this thread and talk about the super bowl.

Steve

[JosephandGabby]

Herd, flock, school, group, collection, clan, gang, etc... In the end, does it even really matter? It's your Koi, you paid good $$$ for 'em, and you have a right to call 'em whatever you want! This really is just semantics and, IMO, a pretty lame topic to waste time arguing about. Props to Jim for moving this topic outside...