Growing the Hobby

[aquitori]

The problem with what Mike said is most dont take it to heart and we(serious koi hobbyist) end up the crazy, snobbish ones who are wrong in how things should be. All in all everyone has their take on how to grow the hobby, the only thing I can do is make each year better for my fish and easier for me.

[HEADACHE6]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond Geez, skimming thru, this is not exactly what I was expecting. I guess I will read thru all this and try to respond as soon as I get a minute.

Your First Post that started the Thread wasn't very Clear ? I wonder what you were expecting ?

[KoiCop]

That's exactly what needs to be answered, Troy, before any meaningful discussion can be had. (Alternatively, of course, we can always chant slogans instead. )

Which is why JR asked: What does 'growing the hobby' mean to you? And what hobby are you talking about?

After all, Hot Air Howlie used to belabor that phrase ad nauseum -- but he certainly didn't use it in what might be considered the ZNA context.

[RogerL]

In my experience even the true koi hobbyists split into two broad catergories and we need to support and encourage two separate "transitions" in order to grow the hobby.

First, we obviously need to bring people in. This may be converting water gardeners to "real" koi ponds or it might be simply finding people who are interested and want to start the right way. At the end of the day you need some space and some money, so it's unlikely to become a young person's hobby any time soon.

Then there are a group of true enthusiasts, with reasonable or even excellent ponds, who keep healthy koi but who never graduate to higher quality fish. This may frequently be an economic decision - they might really like to have high end fish, but they simply can't afford it (or, perhaps, justify it) or they may have better ways to spend their hard earned money. I know numerous people in this category.

Given the symbiotic economic relationship that breeders need between big bucks high-end fish and high volume low-end fish, I think that we need to look carefully at how to bring people into the hobby in the first place, but we also need to look at how to help keen hobbyists progress within the hobby. In some ways I think this is just as challenging as finding new converts!

Supporting clubs and reducing politics will go a long way.

Just my two cents.

[cppond]

Quote: Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 Your First Post that started the Thread wasn't very Clear ? I wonder what you were expecting ?

Well, I wasn’t expecting to get attacked, at least, not until I actually stated an opinion.


The point of the question is simple and obvious in light of the fact that supporting the “growth of the Koi hobby” is part of the AKCA mission statement. It’s not a phrase I made up. The AKCA has listed a few ways it intends to accomplish that. ZNA America states that “Our goal is to spread the hobby of Koi keeping and to improve the knowledge of husbandry techniques and the appreciation of Nishikigoi as living art.”

How can we spread and support the growth of the hobby of Koi keeping? Are there ways to spread and grow the hobby that chat boards in particular can do?

[dick benbow]

What i see in chat lines is an opportunity to take an enthusiastic beginner full of questions and interest and continue to nurture them to allow them to get to the place where they can comfortably maintain a pond with no illnesses. The biggest impass I see is that many newcomers get discouraged and leave the hobby before developing their skills. This is caused by lots of mis information available on the web and antiquated books available but not current. This board in particular tends to attract more of the skilled keepers and i think it may be harder for newbees to comfortably blend in.

remember how hard it was a few decades ago to maintain marine aquariums till the knowledge and equipment was refined to where the average ability could grasp. The same type of transistion needs to happen with koi.

maybe a special section of past posts especially insightful to the beginner could be set up
for them to read first. Then the opportunity to follow up with a board mentor so when they enter the chat line they are not overwhelmed with many with strong varying opinions. In the beginning someone wants to have guidelines establsihed to learn from instead of confusing counter opinions. Once they have arrived with confidence they can they follow different roads to explore based on a solid foundation which is challenging and now allowing them to stretch..
Good question Carl

[MikeM]

Oh, Roger, you've moved to the really tough part... how to do it. It's much simpler to stick to the topic.

And, Tony is on point about the 'snob' part. It is so easy to lose patience with the new fellow who has invested much in learning erroneous 'facts'. Kichi get a bit rough or ignore them. We end up coming across as unpleasant, condescending people. Not good. ...It gets tough when asked for the umpteenth time about water changes and somebody says their koi are doing great and they never do water changes... and none have died in 3 months. ..??X!?

The expense of high level koi should not be the barrier it seems to be for some. True, the better quality gosanke are going to be out of reach for the person on a tight budget. But there is so much to enjoy in a healthy, robust koi. A $20 Ogon tosai will become quite an amazing, beautiful animal. It is the pond system that requires investment. The DIY threads offer a lot of potential for the tight budget. It may not be possible for their lily pond to be converted to a 'true koi pond' cheaply, but much can be done to make one acceptable for a few male koi. If you look back over the history of koi development, you come to realize that what would have been the best koi in the world 30 years ago can be had today for very little. ...Take in what Luke F has done. A lot of sweat equity in his 50,000+ gallon pond, and right now the koi are not the highest quality (which he rather proudly trumpets ), but there sure are some robust ones in Lake Luke. Back to Tony's point... not many have Luke's tough skin. We would do better following DickB's example.

[MikeM]

Dick... you were posting while I was typing. And you've approached it with that gentle, open spirit.

[jnorth]

I think you could start to grow the hobby by stopping trying to reinvent the wheel. Tony is right-people that are serious about koi are called snobs and ridiculed for their dedication. People that have dedicated their lives to the koi hobby and know more about koi than most of us ever will (myself included) are attacked regularly. Why would they want to grow the hobby? I applaud all of them for not giving up on trying to grow the hobby and teach koi. For those that have given up (and I can name quite a few)? I don't blame them. I'm not just talking about people that are experts on show koi but also experts on koi health and pond construction. The AKCA and ZNA already exist and anyone with dedication can work within the system to make changes . If they are needed that is.... Once you really immerse yourself in either organization you learn that things aren't always what they seem and some things are the way they are for reasons you never thought of. And yes change is slow....just like a really good koi it takes patience and a long term dedication to reap the benefits. A new organization does nothing but weaken the whole hobby as it dilutes the members by spreading them out. So back to the original question at hand. How do you grow the hobby? Here is how I do it: One person at a time. Thats right. One person at a time. My non-koi friends all know I have ponds and koi. They all ask about them and a few of them want to build ponds and keep koi. I don't push them about and I don't talk endlessly about it either. I get them started and pointed in the right direction so they don't make the same mistakes I make. Then I sit back and watch them grow in the hobby just like I watch my koi grow. Funny thing is: There are people who have helped me along the way and they are doing the same. While I'm busy tending my little pond of koi hobbyist there are other koi hobbyist tending their ponds of koi hobbyist (I happen to be in a few of those myself). Does it take a new organization to grow the hobby? Nope...but it will go a long way to fracture the bottom of the hobbyist ponds we have already built.

[KoiCop]

I most emphatically reject the idea (which some would seem to espouse?) that all boards should be all things to all people at all levels of the greater ponding hobby (frogs and bogs and such).

Instead, I see the various boards being analagous to our educational system where different grades of students are congregated until they can (&/or want to) pass on to the next level. Newbie boards, koi-lite boards and advanced boards.

In this manner, there's an established hierarchy of boards corresponding to elementary school, middle school, junior high school, high school, college, graduate school, &/etc. Folks can participate at whatever level they're qualified and interested, teach and learn as the case may be, without having every advanced level discussion interrupted by someone just learning the basics.

Finally, Carl, because the phrase 'grow the hobby' has the same sort of cachet about it that the term 'herd' did, and for many of the same reasons, just the mention of it by you (the President of WWKC and KP's chief cat herder) imparts a negative connotation to many members of this board.

And that's not a fact that promotes discussion.