Growing the Hobby

[aquitori]

The growth of the hobby to me seems fine and even with talks of a recession people are still buying koi. If we want to talk actual numbers of growth ask the person in charge of membership in your club to see how much has grown and how much has fallen off. I would be more concerned about education. When a person ask a question about Nishikigoi and another hobbyist answering the question the hobby grows.

All in all the question that should have been asked is "How do you want to grow in this hobby?" The hobbyist has full control in what direction they want to go and not the fish.

I love this hobby, even thou I say I hate it at times I find something new with in it to keep me occupied til the dulldrum hits again. Like the new Nishikigoi Monthly I got yesterday...still havent studied all the pics of the fish yet.

[PapaBear]

Lots of good feedback on this all things considered.
Putting politics aside for the moment (there are competing interests and politics in every endeavor after all), I rather enjoy the way JN summed up his personal approach, and the "grade level" of various boards Don mentioned is likewise undeniably true.
Knowing your "niche" becomes very important.
On some boards I can offer help while on others I can only learn. On some I can do both, depending on the subject at hand. I try to be honest enough with myself to know when to speak and when to wait for others to supply knowledge that I likewise need to grow IN the hobby.
And I really think that is where the rubber meets the road. If any of us wish to "grow the hobby" we must first have a reasonable commitment to personally grow within it, no matter what our present level of knowledge may be. JR, MikeM, DickB, Ray Jordan, Tony, etc... (too many to name) all have much to offer, but the only reason they do is because they are still students of Koi before they are teachers.
Jim's observation of the fact that he has been and still is mentored and tutored by others even as he does the same for those newer to the hobby than himself is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. In some ways it begins to look a bit like an AMWAY diagram of circles creating circles, but we don't have to sell any soap...

[cppond]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth I think you could start to grow the hobby by stopping trying to reinvent the wheel. Tony is right-people that are serious about koi are called snobs and ridiculed for their dedication. People that have dedicated their lives to the koi hobby and know more about koi than most of us ever will (myself included) are attacked regularly. Why would they want to grow the hobby? I applaud all of them for not giving up on trying to grow the hobby and teach koi. For those that have given up (and I can name quite a few)? I don't blame them. I'm not just talking about people that are experts on show koi but also experts on koi health and pond construction. The AKCA and ZNA already exist and anyone with dedication can work within the system to make changes . If they are needed that is.... Once you really immerse yourself in either organization you learn that things aren't always what they seem and some things are the way they are for reasons you never thought of. And yes change is slow....just like a really good koi it takes patience and a long term dedication to reap the benefits. A new organization does nothing but weaken the whole hobby as it dilutes the members by spreading them out. So back to the original question at hand. How do you grow the hobby? Here is how I do it: One person at a time. Thats right. One person at a time. My non-koi friends all know I have ponds and koi. They all ask about them and a few of them want to build ponds and keep koi. I don't push them about and I don't talk endlessly about it either. I get them started and pointed in the right direction so they don't make the same mistakes I make. Then I sit back and watch them grow in the hobby just like I watch my koi grow. Funny thing is: There are people who have helped me along the way and they are doing the same. While I'm busy tending my little pond of koi hobbyist there are other koi hobbyist tending their ponds of koi hobbyist (I happen to be in a few of those myself). Does it take a new organization to grow the hobby? Nope...but it will go a long way to fracture the bottom of the hobbyist ponds we have already built.

I am glad you posted. I have a better understanding of your concerns now. I certainly disagree with your position, but I would be willing to discuss it with you if we could do so without rancor, not that you personally have ever been anything less than civil.

Wouldn’t you agree though that the nastiness that occurs on some of these boards , and even in this thread, is more of a detriment to the hobby than our new club is?

[RogerL]

To follow-up on Mike's "how to do it" post (which is well taken), I guess I was starting to go there with the more clubs, less politics point.

Discussion boards (at all levels) undoubtedly have a place, but in my personal experience they have been just an adjunct to what I have learned directly from vastly more experienced members of our local club.

Firstly, I don't think the boards attract too many people to the hobby, they hopefully provide education and keep newcomers hooked. For me it was seeing large good quality koi for the first time that got me interested. You can't get that experience from websites or photos. Once I was enthused, however, it was other people who were prepared to teach and demonstrate that kept me interested and accelerated my learning and the associated enjoyment. The clubs seem to be key (with the understanding that geography means that for many the internet may still be the primary vehicle for interacting with other enthusiasts) and the clubs, in turn, need the more experienced folks to "give back". Not everyone may be a great teacher, but hopefully most can show enthusiasm and give encouragement. Politics seems to often get in the way of this.

As for how to generate grass roots interest in the first place....... marketing!

If we really want to grow the hobby significantly (and we should be careful what we wish for) we should think big. Not just local promotional events at garden centers etc., but find a way to get a koi story on CNN; get some koi ponds as backdrops in the movies; generate positive magazine and newspaper articles; get schoolkids interested. We need lots of good "koi PR". It's not easy by any means, but as with many things it's a numbers game. Visibility drives interest, which wins new hobbyists, which creates more enthusiasts. How do we get more people in contact with koi in the first place?

For all that there's "conflict" between watergardens and koi ponds I think that there's a strong link between koi ponds and landscaping. I don't know too many members in our club that have nice ponds and awful landscaping. How can we work that to our advantage? Why not a koi pond article in the gardening/landscaping magazine with the largest circulation? Why not a koi pond build on This Old House or Home Makeover?

At the end of the day I can't disagree with JNorth's one at a time mantra, but you have to hook 'em first and then have enough experienced people to provide the "one at a time" encouragement. Takes time.

Just a somewhat disconnected rant I'm afraid. Not rocket science but in summary:

Make the koi hobby more visible (stock the ocean). Find a way for more people to see high quality koi first hand (hook 'em) Nurture and educate via clubs (reel 'em in). Give back to the hobby (can't think of a stupid fishing analogy).

Finally, playing devil's advocate: do we really want to go there? How much growth is enough? I don't think the hobby is dying by any means (although KHV is a significant risk factor that could put it in decline). Do we need to grow faster to sustain high end breeders? What's wrong with the growth rate we have? If we look at it in terms of "markets" it's the breeders and dealers that need to sustain and encourage growth if their market is not growing fast enough.

Does anyone actually have any data on growth rates?

Roger

[HEADACHE6]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond Well, I wasn’t expecting to get attacked, at least, not until I actually stated an opinion.

I'll go back and reread the Post , I didn't see any attacks from my scanning the first time .

But if this turns into that Board Crap again , you'll find me on another Thread . Can't stand that Crap on any Board , I'm "Here" to Learn .

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond Wouldn’t you agree though that the nastiness that occurs on some of these boards . . .

Carl, we just went through another one of Stephen's vitriolic meltdowns and the freakin' thread's still at the top of the list in the Outside forum.

Now you want to debate nastiness? And maybe recruit members for the WWKC in the process?

Good grief, man -- get a grip.

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond I am glad you posted. I have a better understanding of your concerns now. I certainly disagree with your position, but I would be willing to discuss it with you if we could do so without rancor, not that you personally have ever been anything less than civil. Wouldn’t you agree though that the nastiness that occurs on some of these boards , and even in this thread, is more of a detriment to the hobby than our new club is?

I can always discuss things without getting nasty (usually ). I totally understand you disagree with me and I'm ok with that. With all that said I usually stay out of these threads unless I'm referreeing however I'd be more than happy to expand on this in public on the board or in private if you like about the nastiness on the boards and it relates. Let me know.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond How can we spread and support the growth of the hobby of Koi keeping?

By educating hobbyist with or without a club. The hobby has been around for nearly 40 years here in the states and I think it will be around for many more.

My question to Carl is, does he feel the hobby is in a regression or something?

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond Are there ways to spread and grow the hobby that chat boards in particular can do?

Chat boards are a cover to see what hobbyist are truely made of. Chat boards are for quick answers and thats it. It is easier to discuss health problems on the chat boards than discuss the qualities of koi. I have met many from koi boards at koi shops to ask me what Shiroji looks like in person and it is hard to believe how much info this person is missing by not seeing something in person. The chat board to me will always be a second source of info as the first will always be hanging out at the koi shop learning as much as I can in person...

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by cppond How can we spread and support the growth of the hobby of Koi keeping? Are there ways to spread and grow the hobby that chat boards in particular can do?

How can we spread and support the growth of the hobby of Koi keeping? Word of mouth. One on one, like Jim said...being a mentor for those below our experience level and giving people a hand's up with friendship through koi. We are all examples of our passion for koi.

What can the chat boards in particular do? Cater to the diversity within the hobby. Face it, each site has it's own tone and flavor, which is a very good thing. No sense making everything cloned from a templant of what and who koi hobbyists should be.

Look at KoiBito here...this is my beloved home pond on the net because it is driven by an almost insane desire to learn, grow and be educated in everything Nishikigoi, and I've done some really serious learning here and hope to continue to do so. It's like stepping into a university classroom complete with the decorum of said pinnacle of serious learning and yes, it is very formal. I wouldn't change it for the world.

In contrast, Ko*phen is like stepping into the student union of said university after classes are over, a very informal setting where people can just be people and discuss things both trivial and profound and exchange notes on what they've learned at their leisure. Yes, it's alot more social than here, but that's needed. Alot of things come out of socialization, one of them being a common bonding between like minded individuals that are willing to take the time to get to know each other on more levels than just koi.

We need this sort of diversity online--from the very focused site to the most broad spectrum out there--because it takes a lot of different people to make a world. We necessarily cannot all be the same or the wheels would fall off of the proverbial koi hobby bus and it would grind to a grunting halt in the dirt. But we can find a common ground through which we can all relate, and that ground is our living jewels that we love so much. The fish, in the end, speak for themselves. It is their expression of true art and beauty that draws people into the hobby and we as individuals are only their heralds....

[MCA]

If we talking about growing the number of folks that build and maintain ponds built for koi (ie koi ponds) you bet. If we are talking growing the number of person who think any pond with a koi is a koi pond....NOT!!!!


Example: At our Sunday club meeting I played the video from KOI CARP & BKKS called Master Class Starting Out. It was about the basics of koi, koi ponds and equipment. You know, the basics like pond need to be at LEAST 4' deep....etc. None of the talk about plant shelves and bogs. It talked about the importance of BDs feeding filters...about the importance of aeration.....etc.

After the movie, we had several members say they were doing it wrong. They had been listening to the "garden centers" approach of a pond being a landscape device, not the home of large carp. There is such a difference in those concepts!!!!!!!!!!!

So again, if we talking about growing the number of folks who know koi, about koi ponds, proper koi health care....etc. All fer it . If we are talking about folks putting koi in a ditch with no BD or aeration, and thinking plants solve everything.... NOT!

The devil is in the details!!!!

Ask yourself what you or your club(s) are doing to teaching koi keeping...not some vague concept of ponding.