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Thread: Pond Peeling

  1. #91
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypit View Post
    Steve,

    Did you get a answer from randy on the white spots?
    Not a word...

  2. #92
    Nisai Moneypit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post
    Not a word...
    Ok I was just wondering, sorry for the thread hyjack

  3. #93
    Tosai Sani-Tred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post
    Not a word...
    That is not true ... well unless your applicator did not inform you that he called our office and spoke with us.

    He said that Monday afternoon he applied 1 coat of LRB. He said that he finished applying this coat of LRB at 1:05 PM then waited overnight.

    He then explained that he just wiped it down and began applying the topcoat of PermaFlex

    I informed him that, as the instructions state, since the coat of LRB was left overnight that the pond should have been thoroughly washed first (TSP & water or dish soap & water), rinsed, dried, THEN thoroughly wiped using either xylene or acetone.

    He did not follow the instructions ... again. This is what has caused the separation of the top coat of PermaFlex and why you are seeing the underlying coat of LRB in those small spots. This is why a thorough wash-down is recommended ... to remove the oily surface film that was allowed to occur by waiting overnight between coats. This is why it is always recommended to complete what you start that day. If you cannot complete the entire pond then ONLY start a section that you can complete that day.

    Steve ... remember when I forwarded you that email on August 24, 2009? That email listed step-by-step as to how this pond should be prepared and how the re-application should be performed. That same email was also sent to Pond on August 21, 2009. I thoroughly outlined what was recommended including the wash-down and wipe-down. Just to refresh your memory I will forward it to you and Pond Life again.

  4. #94
    Tosai
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    Sani-Tred,
    Tthanks for the background...but i had not seen a reply to the issue i posted relating to the small, whitish dots on the final coat of black sani-tred.

    I do know that Mike/Dan were in contact with you prior to applying the two coats of sani tred and thought they had done the process you prescribed. I also acknowlege that you sent instructions in a separate email. My post (copy below from post #80), asking for input on the whitish spots, is actually after this communication, and after the final coat of Sani-Trend, but before filling the pond.

    By the way, until your post today, I did not know that you had recenly advised Mike and Dan that they did something wrong with the most recent application. Any suggestion what do do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post
    ok folks, please help with this...

    Mike and Dan were out today to coat the pond; base coat then a black coat; lrb had been previously applied over a base prepare per manufacturer instructions.

    However, small whitish dots (1/16" or 1/8") have appeared in the newly applied Black Sani Tred. Pictures are attached. While we cannot confirm, the spots "appear" as though they are LRB. The spots are not bubbles but almost appear like fisheyes in the paint. The spots are integrated into the black film, feel rubbery, and can't smear or sratch off(lightly that is).

    Are we OK to fill, or is there a problem here?

  5. #95
    Tosai Sani-Tred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post
    Sani-Tred,
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post
    Tthanks for the background...but i had not seen a reply to the issue i posted relating to the small, whitish dots on the final coat of black sani-tred.

    I do know that Mike/Dan were in contact with you prior to applying the two coats of sani tred and thought they had done the process you prescribed. I also acknowlege that you sent instructions in a separate email. My post (copy below from post #80), asking for input on the whitish spots, is actually after this communication, and after the final coat of Sani-Trend, but before filling the pond.

    By the way, until your post today, I did not know that you had recenly advised Mike and Dan that they did something wrong with the most recent application. Any suggestion what do do now?


    I would contact our office so this can be discussed in the appropriate manor.

  6. #96
    Tategoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnkleTim View Post
    It appears that when the dust settles, you should just have a polyurea coating sprayed on the gunite and be done with it for your entire life or the life of the pond.
    If I understand recent events correctly, the "re-do" is now failing as well -- even before the re-coating process has been completed? If you think about it, this is really a good thing, in that the failure is immediate and obvious. It would have been far worse if the "re-do" had appeared to have worked for long enough for fish to have been returned to the pond.

    Personally, I would bet money that you are headed for another major pond malfunction. Reading through the shifting sands of blame, ownership, and financial liability with regards to this pond getting coated, I think I would come to the conclusions that -- for whatever reason -- THIS product (Sani-Tred) on THIS pond, installed by THIS contractor(s) is simply a formula for more grief and dissappointment.

    I think UnkleTim called it right: it is time to move on -- move on to some other water-proofing method (polyurea, Xypex, Herco, pre-formed liner, etc) installed/purchased by entirely different players, and get on with enjoying your fish.

  7. #97
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    If I understand recent events correctly, the "re-do" is now failing as well -- even before the re-coating process has been completed? If you think about it, this is really a good thing, in that the failure is immediate and obvious. It would have been far worse if the "re-do" had appeared to have worked for long enough for fish to have been returned to the pond.

    Personally, I would bet money that you are headed for another major pond malfunction. Reading through the shifting sands of blame, ownership, and financial liability with regards to this pond getting coated, I think I would come to the conclusions that -- for whatever reason -- THIS product (Sani-Tred) on THIS pond, installed by THIS contractor(s) is simply a formula for more grief and dissappointment.

    I think UnkleTim called it right: it is time to move on -- move on to some other water-proofing method (polyurea, Xypex, Herco, pre-formed liner, etc) installed/purchased by entirely different players, and get on with enjoying your fish.
    From what I understand, there are other great products out there like you suggest....I will never go with a product that is THIS difficult to install. geez.-

  8. #98
    Tosai Sani-Tred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan25 View Post
    From what I understand, there are other great products out there like you suggest....I will never go with a product that is THIS difficult to install. geez.-


    It's actually very simple to apply and to apply correctly. This quote is very true, "what we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach ..." (from Cool Hand Luke).


    Ask Steve Burke what his applicator did ... or I should say 'what he didn't do'. He knows exactly what was and was not performed.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sani-Tred View Post
    It's actually very simple to apply and to apply correctly.

    Ask Steve Burke what his applicator did ... or I should say 'what he didn't do'. He knows exactly what was and was not performed.
    I, for one, am not knocking your product. It is obvious that many people have used Sani-Tred on their ponds with very good results. It is also understandable that you may feel that you have been put in the position of defending your product.

    As far as "asking Steve Burke what his applicator did...." I think you are trying to shift the burden of responsibility on to the wrong shoulders. I have been involved in more than a few construction projects, and I have observed the "blame game" get played if/when something goes seriously pear-shaped. Mind you, now, I am not saying there was anything wrong with the Sani-Tred material used, but Steve Burke (whom I have never met outside of this thread) was the customer -- that's the guy who writes the check, NOT the guy with the technical expertise. Steve didn't even know what product was used on his pond when he began this thread back in July -- only that he hired a professional pond-installer to build it; presumably, that pond-installer was to use professional materials and proper installation methods. It is not the customer's responsibility to inform the contracted professional how to perfom the job, or is it?

  10. #100
    Tosai Sani-Tred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    I, for one, am not knocking your product. It is obvious that many people have used Sani-Tred on their ponds with very good results. It is also understandable that you may feel that you have been put in the position of defending your product.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post

    As far as "asking Steve Burke what his applicator did...." I think you are trying to shift the burden of responsibility on to the wrong shoulders. I have been involved in more than a few construction projects, and I have observed the "blame game" get played if/when something goes seriously pear-shaped. Mind you, now, I am not saying there was anything wrong with the Sani-Tred material used, but Steve Burke (whom I have never met outside of this thread) was the customer -- that's the guy who writes the check, NOT the guy with the technical expertise. Steve didn't even know what product was used on his pond when he began this thread back in July -- only that he hired a professional pond-installer to build it; presumably, that pond-installer was to use professional materials and proper installation methods. It is not the customer's responsibility to inform the contracted professional how to perfom the job, or is it?
    I know what you are saying, but Steve Burke was the one who informed me of this thread which is the only reason why I posted here.

    On August 21, 2009 Pond Life (Steve Burkes applicator) was forwarded the info regard his application. It was short & sweet and in perfect detail.

    On August 24, 2009 Steve Burke asked me to forward him the exact same information that was sent to his applicator so I did. I was in contact with both Steve and his applicator.

    I only asked Steve if he recalled that email because that email, and the written instructions, explained what needed to be done. That's all.

    Not a blame game ... just clarifying because Steve was asked if he received an answer from us and his answer was NO. The fact is that he was not aware that Pond Life already contacted us, the problem was immediately identified, the problem was explained to Pond Life, and Pond Life kept their customer out of the loop. I imagine that there may be a reasonable explanation for that, but that is none of my business.

    I am not here to play the blame game … I am merely filling in the gaps to keep Pond Life’s customer informed (which is not my job is it?).

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