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Thread: I wonder if I should use Aqua Ultra or K1

  1. #1
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    I wonder if I should use Aqua Ultra or K1

    I think I need more filtration or at least will need more as the koi grow.

    • 14 koi
    • 5500 gallons
    • bottom drain > priming pot > 5500 gph pump > multi cyclone prefilter > Ultima II 4000
    • skimmer > 5000 gph pump > Tagelus D60 (same as Ultima II 4000)
    • 300 l/m air
    I'm not as handy as apparently the people on here are so I came up with something I'm confident I can do.

    If anybody would care to give me advice, I want to use a 100 gallon stock tank as a water fall and fill it with bio media.

    I found the SSA of these:

    • K1: 244 cu. ft.
    • Aqua Ultra: 750 cu. ft.
    BUT, the K1 is supposed to clean better.

    BUT, if the water is coming from the bottom drain, through the prefilter (traps 40-80 microns) , through the Ultima II, won't the water be clean at that point? Admittedly, my eyesight isn't what it used to be but I don't see floaters in the water since installing the multi cyclone.

    I plan to come in the bottom of the stock tank under a grate and use a venturi and an eductor.

    K1 I guess will float.

    Aqua Ultra sinks but since it floats when stirred up during backwashing, I figured the venturi and eductor might keep it moving around in the stock tank.

    And a grate on top to keep it in. And a cover to keep junk out.

    So I wonder if the water will be clean enough at that point to use the Aqua Ultra since the SSA is more.

    All thoughts are appreciated.

    Also, I know this setup isn't the greatest, no SC, but the best I can do right now is the multi cyclone as a prefilter.
    ...enjoy your day!
    5500 gllns, Ultima II 4000, Tarpon 6000, 1 Multi-Cyclone Prefilter, 2 - 5500 gph pumps, 1 Retro BD, 1 skimmer, max depth 4', 5% trickle 24/7 weather permitting

  2. #2
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    peppy, k1 does float.
    if you put a central slotted pvc pipe for your out going water the k1 will pack around it and trap all sorts of fines. boil it clean with air and flush.
    or boil with air all the time to create a bio filter.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    By the time the water reaches your waterfall, it should be pretty clean already, so you are looking for additional bio filtration? If so, I'd use Kaldnes and keep it aerated either with a DIY air ring, air stones or a diffuser disk so you would have a fluidized bed. If you are want it to trap addition fines, don't aerate it but I'd still use Kaldnes. It's much easier to boil it clean with air if it's already floating. Use a slotted pipe to flow out to the waterfall so the K1 does not escape.

  4. #4
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    Thanks Meg and CarolinaGirl.

    I guess I'll boil it all the time for the bio part. The cyclone thing seems to be doing a good job of keeping floaters out of the water. The water looks really clear so far. I have to empty the thing daily. Last year I wasn't impressed with it but:
    1. I had a pump on the bottom (advised by a guy who owns a fish store with koi) at first and it wasn't collecting all the fish poo
    2. when I finally installed the retro-drain, it still wasn't getting all the fish poo
    I fixed that by mistake! I read somewhere the koi need lots of current, so I put an extra pump in there and by golly it's pushing all the poo around and right into the retro drain.

    I shut it off last night and there was poo on the bottom this morning. I turned it back on and in a few hours, the floor was clean again. It's got the water going around and down.

    I really should have 2 bottom drains but this is working so that's great for now.

    I hope it's not too much current. Lots of current is kind of vague.

    I ordered an 1.5 inch eductor and am hoping that will work good enough that I can take the extra pump out since I'm already running two pumps.

    So I guess you like the K1 because it cleans up better? And floats?

    I tried using different formulas for how much SSA I need but I guess the best thing is to keep testing, especially as the food increases. I don't want things to get ahead of me because of the 7 little guys [hopefully] getting bigger.

    I was going to grate the top of the tank, put a weir on it, and let the water flow over. But the slotted pipe idea sounds better.

    But if I boil the water for bio filtration, it won't pack around the pipe?

    I found DIY stock tank waterfall instructions on the Internet. Finally, something I can do. My husband calls my setup a plumbing nightmare. It IS pretty scary! I just need to hide everything. Darn work keeps getting in the way of my pond project.

  5. #5
    Meg
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    Peppy the air churning th k1 keeps it off the slotted pipe, it is in the static filter with no air that it will pack around the pipe .... this makes it great for using in either situation.

    me thinks it will be difficult for you to have too much current

  6. #6
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    Good news on the current, Meg. I was afraid of tiring the fish. That's why I shut the extra pump off the other night.

    Everything working correctly, ie.: bottom drain collecting all the poo, beats the HECK out of fishing left-behind poo out with a leaf net.

    The one thing about gravel-bottom ponds is you don't see all the poo. You get the mistaken impression that the pond is clean. Seeing how much waste koi actually produce was a real shocker.

  7. #7
    MCA
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    Now you start to see why koi keepers cringe when they hear about aquascrape type ponds. The whole notion is wrong headed for koi.

  8. #8
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    My complaint about the dealer who installed my pond is he:
    1. told me I could keep koi in it
    2. said 2 feet deep is all that's necessary in my area
    3. said I could put thousands of koi in it
    4. said he'd build the edges up so runoff wouldn't get in (he didn't)
    Even if what collects in the gravel wasn't bad for the fish, who the heck wants to clean that crap every year? What a stinking mess. The smell stays in your nose for weeks. I don't know how professionals can stand cleaning gravel bottom ponds.

    I fought no-gravel tooth and nail! I finally removed the gravel from the 300 gallon stock tank as an experiment. Once I saw the amount of poo on the floor after just one day, that was all the convincing I needed. And those were only Shubunkins.

    I still don't have a bottom drain in the 300 gallon. Every day I take a Python gravel cleaner (for aquariums) and clean the poo from the bottom. After I get the suction going, I take the gravel cleaning part off and just go around the bottom with the hose, sucking up all the poo.

    Once in a while I miss a day but hardly ever. The Python stays out there all the time and it only takes 5 minutes.

    One of these days, I'm going to put a little bottom drain in that one too.

    Water gardens are beautiful. When I have the koi pond the way I want it, I might put a water garden next to it. Something small enough that I can hire somebody to come and clean the smelly crap every year.

    This is a hard subject to keep quiet about. I'll try to restrain myself and shut up now.

  9. #9
    MCA
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    My complaint about the dealer who installed my pond is he:
    1. told me I could keep koi in it
    2. said 2 feet deep is all that's necessary in my area
    3. said I could put thousands of koi in it
    4. said he'd build the edges up so runoff wouldn't get in (he didn't)

    But...it was your money, your pond, your yard, your fish. The burden was on you...like the rest of us....to know better. You will not buy those lines again.

    Experience is the best teacher...it is the most expensive.

    There is no saint better than a reformed sinner.

    Fiat lux!!!!

  10. #10
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppy View Post
    My complaint about the dealer who installed my pond is he:
    1. told me I could keep koi in it
    2. said 2 feet deep is all that's necessary in my area
    3. said I could put thousands of koi in it
    4. said he'd build the edges up so runoff wouldn't get in (he didn't)...

    ...This is a hard subject to keep quiet about. I'll try to restrain myself and shut up now.
    Makes you just want to go kick his sorry lyin' ass don't it
    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    ...You will not buy those lines again.

    Experience is the best teacher...it is the most expensive.

    There is no saint better than a reformed sinner.

    Fiat lux!!!!
    Ain't that the truth!

    At least you are learning from your past mistakes. Lots of folks who start that way keep clinging to the B.S. for years until they finally grow weary of the annual expense (and stench) of cleaning their rocky cesspool and back fill the very expensive hole in the ground in disgust.

    If it was me I'd be tempted to gather up a bag or two of rocks and sludge to leave as a "gift" for the pond installer... at the main entrance to his pricey portapotty shop... just before they open... every time they are having a "pondapalooza sale"
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

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