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Thread: sealers for rock and cement ponds.

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    sealers for rock and cement ponds.

    Hi everyone!
    I have a problem. I had a rubber lined pond that over the years was ripped by migratory bears to the point where it was rendered useless. I moved the fish out and in place of the rubber liner pond, I constructed a rock/cement pond. Well...if you are saying "oh boy" at this point I don't need to tell you that it leaks.
    Question, I was going to try (operative word here is "try") to seal up where I think the cracks might be and then I was thinking of using pool paint over the entire structure. Does anyone know if rubber based pool paints would work in this case (I mean, if I don't find all the leaks will the paint seal them off?) or should I go with something more $$$$ like pond armor. Thanks for whatever advise and insightful help you may be able to give to me and my poor Koi.

  2. #2
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    A little more detail on the method of construction might be helpful. How was the rock/mortar/concrete work done? Is there reinforcement, wire, rebar, etc... to provide stability? That could make a big difference in the direction you should take.

  3. #3
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    for a concrete/gunite/shotcrete pond you can seal with:

    pool plaster...just lke a swimming pool
    Herco liquid rubber
    high end sealant like CIM
    epoxy paints marketed for ponds
    any number of epoxy pool paints
    a couple of coats of dryloc

    much as to do with your budget and ability to do all or part of the work youself

  4. #4
    Tosai
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    Thanks PapaBear for your response. Here is a pic of the pond I built. I don't have any photos of it now but here it is during the build. I used rocks off our property (which I washed before I put in place) and I use a sand and lime mix with no reinforcement such a wire because I though my method of constructionsealers for rock and cement ponds.-img_0447.jpg would be fine for strength. Please forgive the photo quality.....I am so bad at getting a good photo.
    Should I have used wire? I know in many jobs wire is a must but like I say, I thought my method would be fine but now you have me thinking that I may have made a mistake. Please say it isn't so! I laid rocks so that they sat on one another with a good build up of cement around each one.

    MCA, I will give the products you suggest a look. I like the pool plaster idea thus far as it sounds thick enough for me to work in to whatever gaps may have appeared through shrinkage or me just not getting a good bond.
    Cost is a factor, hence me building the pond myself, ( well me and my hubby with his tractor for the bigger rocks on top) so I will have to weigh out my options on that bases as well as durability.

    Thank you both so much. I'll let you know how I manage and please, if anyone else has experience with this I'd greatly appreciate your input.
    I love my fish and really want to make this a good "permanent" home for them. Oh and as a side note to me loving my fish, I built them a longish tube cave (which the two openings you may be able to detect in the photo) so they have a place to hide should the bears jump in for a meal. I did have a tube in there before thinking it would be a bit of a safe haven but it was not built in like it is now. They use to hangout and/or hide in it then so my hope is that they will find it and use it.

  5. #5
    Honmei
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    All concrete (slabs) will "crack" over time. The difference is whether or not the crack is a structural fracture or not and for ponds, whether or not the sealant will expand for a slight crack to keep it sealed.

    I am sorry to say that without reinforcement (type determined by depth of water and size of area) that you will experience structural fractures that will seperate beyond what most sealants can deal with. You have sme short term options such as expandable foams into the cracks (if you can identify these) or even epoxies but I would bet that these would only be short term fixes...again, sorry.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  6. #6
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    All concrete (slabs) will "crack" over time. The difference is whether or not the crack is a structural fracture or not and for ponds, whether or not the sealant will expand for a slight crack to keep it sealed.

    I am sorry to say that without reinforcement (type determined by depth of water and size of area) that you will experience structural fractures that will seperate beyond what most sealants can deal with. You have sme short term options such as expandable foams into the cracks (if you can identify these) or even epoxies but I would bet that these would only be short term fixes...again, sorry.
    Thanks for your reply but I didn't do a "slab" but instead embedded rocks in with the cement/sand/lime mix, please see attached photo in my previous post. I should also add that underneath my rockery work I have pond felt in place as well I left the pond liner in and yes, I did try to repair all the holes left by the bear on it's last visit....all 27!!! It's a mystery to me why it's leaking since even though it leaked with the ragged pond liner it none the less was slow and actually held water better than it is now. Strange! One good thing is that it does hold water at about 1/4 full and show no leaks at that level.
    Has any here used Pond Amor? If so, were you pleased with the results. Thanks

  7. #7
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmoon View Post
    Thanks for your reply but I didn't do a "slab" but instead embedded rocks in with the cement/sand/lime mix, please see attached photo in my previous post. I should also add that underneath my rockery work I have pond felt in place as well I left the pond liner in and yes, I did try to repair all the holes left by the bear on it's last visit....all 27!!! It's a mystery to me why it's leaking since even though it leaked with the ragged pond liner it none the less was slow and actually held water better than it is now. Strange! One good thing is that it does hold water at about 1/4 full and show no leaks at that level.
    Has any here used Pond Amor? If so, were you pleased with the results. Thanks
    Change the name ""slab" to "floor," same results. BTW, I did look at the pictre, before I answerred orignally. Your rock work is for visual aesthetics but doesn't add to the structural integrity. Some may even argue that it takes away from the structure of the slab...errr, floor, by creating fault lines for cracks to develope. Rebar or remesh ties the slab...errrr, floor together and helps to keep the inevitable cracks from becoming structural faults/failures.

    If you are looking for a solution, use a thin set mix and smooth out the countour of the rocks. Then have the pond srayed with polyurea. This isn;t the cheapest solution but in all likelihood be the best for the long term. I believe that "Pond Armor" is a dealer's name for Polyurea.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  8. #8
    Tosai
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    Thanks for your reply again. Floor, slab,....they all mean the same I see, . Of course they are the same but I really thought when you said slab you meant a solid piece. Odd that there is no cracks in it at this point, like I said, it holds water to about 1/4 full but I take it this could change in time with the weight of the rock walls perhaps creating cracks in the slab. Sigh, live and learn. I need to do something with it but the more I talk about this and the more I read on the net it looks daunting. You and the others are kindly providing me with some ideas to pond....er!

  9. #9
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmoon View Post
    Thanks for your reply again. Floor, slab,....they all mean the same I see, . Of course they are the same but I really thought when you said slab you meant a solid piece. Odd that there is no cracks in it at this point, like I said, it holds water to about 1/4 full but I take it this could change in time with the weight of the rock walls perhaps creating cracks in the slab. Sigh, live and learn. I need to do something with it but the more I talk about this and the more I read on the net it looks daunting. You and the others are kindly providing me with some ideas to pond....er!
    Please keep in mind that there are numerous acceptable construction methodologies...single pur concrete multiple pours (floor and walls seperate), etc. The key is that all have to be tied together, typically with rebar (size of which is determined by structural needs...the deeper the pond, the more weight of the water and thus bigger rebar and closer together). Rest assured that you are not the first, nor the last that didn't understand structural integrities and bulding methodologies prior to building you pond. I am truly sorry that you spent all of that effort in a very pleasing vissually pond only to have it leak on you.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  10. #10
    Tosai
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    Well I do take some comfort in knowing I am not the first nor likely the last but I will prevail and I will have it sealed come hell or high water....even if it means I have to start over again. Thanks for saying it looks nice. I stood back after it was done and smiled, short lived smile but I did learn something and continue to do so.

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