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Thread: Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades

  1. #21
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Thank you both, MCA and Ricshaw. I know a lot of you folks with much more koi keeping experience are always telling us newbies to 'hit those showers'. There must be something to be said for their degassing/bio capabilities. I will access the sites and docs you recommend and see if I can build something that balances the fishes' needs with the esthetics I have to meet as well.

  2. #22
    Jumbo
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    I'm still looking at this differently. You have a beautiful pond and though it is not ideal, not perfect, it is there, it is in place and it is working. It is working! Don't fix it!

    Not to be contrary, I will still point out that it is likely that ALL bio conversion of ammonia could be handled by the system you have in place, circulated approximately twice an hour, WITHOUT the bead filter. With the bead filter, you are capturing the solids draught by the bottom drains, and expelling them daily. (Or twice daily) (Right?)

    Feed the fish. Grow them. If they capture your wife's fancy, she'll buy the bakki shower and media if you two decide you need it. Thousands, by the way, several. And not exactly cheap the home made, off brand way that I did it and I know someone will suggest you do it.

    Let your pond nest into its niche. Add fish if you feel compelled to. Cull the less desirable then or add filtration then. And at that time my suggestion would be to leave the bottom drains and the bead filter alone, as is. Find a way to add bio or sieve and bio to the skimmer system. Is the thread where Cetus and Clarity are added to Koicops pond findable in "search?" Betcha. And I betcha Don, Koicop, would be happy to add his reactions to the changes brought by their addition if current comments aren't in the thread.

    Enjoy that beautiful pond.
    Mickey the windowman, the world is a very big place.

    Aquitori says Keokoi says "even sun shines on dogs ass..." so I say... Buy Ugly Early.

  3. #23
    Nisai Scrmnkg's Avatar
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    Beautiful pond, but I'll throw my two cents in on a recomended filter upgrade.

    You'll get the best bang for your buck if you put the sieve "gravity flow" on the BD circuit. It's going to capture and "remove from the water column" the heavy debris that gets in you pond. This in turn will allow your bead to run cleaner and reduce backwashing to "twice a week" from "twice a day"

    As for the sieve on the skimmer circuit, for example, the Cetus sieve has a 300 micro screen which is pretty fine but it's not intended as a "fines" filter. An upflow, no pressurized S/G filter will do a better job with fines.

  4. #24
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mitten View Post
    I'm still looking at this differently. You have a beautiful pond and though it is not ideal, not perfect, it is there, it is in place and it is working. It is working! Don't fix it!
    I look at it different. This is a Koi pond, if it works, don't fix it. If there are problems now, there will be limitations.

    Not to be contrary, I will still point out that it is likely that ALL bio conversion of ammonia could be handled by the system you have in place, circulated approximately twice an hour, WITHOUT the bead filter. With the bead filter, you are capturing the solids draught by the bottom drains, and expelling them daily. (Or twice daily) (Right?)
    Not sure what you mean, but because a UV light is needed to keep the water from turning green means to me that the filtration system is border line.

    Feed the fish. Grow them. If they capture your wife's fancy, she'll buy the bakki shower and media if you two decide you need it. Thousands, by the way, several. And not exactly cheap the home made, off brand way that I did it and I know someone will suggest you do it.
    If the filtration system is border line, it may not be able to handle the addition of more fish and/or growing fish.

    Let your pond nest into its niche. Add fish if you feel compelled to. Cull the less desirable then or add filtration then. And at that time my suggestion would be to leave the bottom drains and the bead filter alone, as is. Find a way to add bio or sieve and bio to the skimmer system. Is the thread where Cetus and Clarity are added to Koicops pond findable in "search?" Betcha. And I betcha Don, Koicop, would be happy to add his reactions to the changes brought by their addition if current comments aren't in the thread

    Enjoy that beautiful pond.
    I agree. Enjoy your pond. Wait and see what happens. It is a beautiful pond.

  5. #25
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Thank you all, Mitten, Scrmnkg and Ricshaw, for your input. Being an advocate of 'don't fix it if it isn't truly broken', I believe I'll follow the advise of slowly adding to the fish load and watch my water parameters and visual quality a bit longer. I'm also leaning towards the advise to eventually add a sieve to the skimmer system only because I am NOT finding it necessary to do frequent backwashes on the bead filter. Also, I'm surprised at just how much floating 'junk', right down to the almost fine dust level, gets caught up in those skimmers.

    Again, good advise from all, and I much appreciate the thoughtful and intelligent observations.

  6. #26
    Fry
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    building a filtration system - need suggestions.

    sorry wrong post.

  7. #27
    Fry
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    Am building my last pond here in ohio. Have built 3 others. One, my first and done improperly for koi and the last two with proper filtration. This pond is 12 x 24. And will use 2 bottom drains, koi toilets with 4 inch gravity fed lines to two cetus sieves. Was going to use 2 nexus 300 easy's from a gent who was selling them his two, with pumps for 3k, used only two years, till I asked him what he was replacing them with. He said Birdman from high desert koi just built a 30,000 gallon pond in down the road from him and he saw his shower units in operation...teo of them with each shower pulling two bottom drains, gravity fed, to a 10,500 gallon per hour pump up and over with 3 inch line and gravity feeding back to pondwith 2 4 inch lines to tpr's and gpr. Spoke to Birdman and was sold on his system after talking to a number of othersuwsing it and his sand and gravekunits for the fines on a skimmer circuit and waterfall set up. I can buy the sieves for under 1000,00 each...the shower for 1200.00 ...the featherock in shower for 250.00 and three s/g filter kits for 125.00 each and pump for 450.00. My first exoperience was with the pressurized bead fiters and was not good ...never wentback. Am sure they like all other things are better today...that ws ten years ago. Attached is one of myponds with filter building and set up inside. Sold the farm....building still stands and has been stripped clean, and pond bull dozed under as it stood.

  8. #28
    Fry
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    Could not attach photos to last post.....here they are
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-115.jpg   Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-189.jpg   Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-190.jpg   Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-171.jpg   Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-179.jpg  


  9. #29
    Fry
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    Here are a couple of shots of the 30,000 gallon pond using the two showers and cetus units I am using.....but I have a building to put mine in. He has smaller unit. Not pushing his stuff but from what I have read and talkked to 10 different users it is the nuts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-final13.jpg   Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-proposed-pond-002.jpg   Filter System Critique and Possible Upgrades-water.jpg  

  10. #30
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgeorgia View Post
    I would like to ask the members of this forum their thoughts on my current filter system and some upgrades I am contemplating. Thank you all, in advance, for your expertise, experience and advise.

    Current Pond and System:

    1) 5400 gal shotcrete construction - roughly 'drumstick' shaped pond, sealed with Hecht pond rubber (see attached photos). No water garden, plant shelves, etc.... strictly and purposefully built for koi.

    2) 3/4 of the pond is 5 ft. deep with the rest sloping from 3.5 down to 5 ft. in depth

    3) 2 Sequence 1/2 horse pumps, one driving a pair of bottom drains, feeding into a 10,000 gal capacity AlphaOne bead filter, then running through a UV tube, with water returned through a bowl type fountain and 2 TPRs.

    4) The 2nd Sequence pump feeds a pair of heavy duty skimmers, with water returned through another 'bowl style' fountain and 3 TPRs (lots of circular water movement in the pond)


    Water conditions are what I consider at least acceptable, with near saturation DO, 7.5 steady PH, 0 ammonia, nitrates, etc, with alkalinity at 92 PPM and Hardness at 175 (wish THAT number was a bit lower)

    The water clarity is good, with dime sized objects clearly visible at the bottom.

    Fish load is light, with only 5 koi in the pond at this time, with a maximum of 7 or 8 at the very most when at capacity.

    The Contemplated Upgrades:

    While my clarity is good, my pond is not covered in any way, so every freakin' oak leaf, acorn, catkin and God knows what else, of course, winds up in the water. My skimmers work very well, but upon closer inspection I see more minute suspended detritus floating in the water column than I'd like. Two additions come to mind:

    1) I'm considering adding a Cetus or other sieve component to the skimmer (pre pump or post?)

    2) A Nexus or other bio filter on the bead filter pump system, AFTER the beads, with the idea of upping my biological filtering capacity for my somewhat larger than recommended fish load (stretching the 1,000 gal per large koi guideline just a bit).

    Thoughts, comments, or alternative ideas?

    Thanks to any and all for some input.
    My advice? Replace the UV with a shower filter.

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