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Thread: Koi Pond Contractors

  1. #11
    Nisai KDSD's Avatar
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    Ummm.........have a few thoughts here.


    Description of work: LABOR: Dig a 20’ long x 10’ wide x 3’ deep pond with waterfall- Total Gallons+ 4500. (It can be made shorter and deeper but must equal 4500 plus gallons.)

    Why only 4500 gals?? Deeper is better.


    The walls will be built with cinder blocks.(cells filled with concrete? what is the footing size going to be? any steel in block?) The floor will be tapered prior to the liner being installed. The Underliner and 45 mil fish safe line is used. One, bottom drain with an aerator on top, one skimmer,(more then one would be good) 10K Sacramento Koi bead & glass filters with 2 HP blower, one `ultra violet sterilizer, waterfall, stone all around the perimeter

    Only one bottom drain? I would used at least 2 spaced out for better collection. Each drain is good for around 10-12' radius. Space out at 6-7' apart down middle.

    No SC chamber(s)

    Pond Materials & Equipment:
    45 mil liner, Underliner, tape, glue, caulk, stone dust(Ok? stone dust) and cinder blocks, bottom drain with air diffuser, weighted hose line,(What do you need this for if your hard piped under liner to air pump?) skimmer, one 10K Sacramento Koi Advantage Bead & Glass Filter with 2 HP blower, one Fluid Art Turbo Vortex Separator,(this is not a SC)
    http://www.pondtech.net/PDF's/TURBOV...N%20MANUAL.pdf

    one Performance Pro ½ HP pump, one 100 watt Aqua Stainless Steel single bulb Ultra Violet Light Sterilizer, misc. plumbing and materials

    Ummm.... where is air pump to run bottom air dome(s) what size?


    TOTAL FOR COMPLETE WORK
    $37,709.90 ($8.25 per gallon app.)

    TOTAL EQUIPMENT INCLUDING FREIGHT-will be dropped shipped to your home
    $16,709.90

    $37,709.90 does that include the $16,709.90 or that in addition to price.

    Not included: Stones,(Would this be for water fall? or coping around edge?)excavator (should be in price of bid, also where is the cost of removal of said dirt coming out of hole?) and electrical HOME OWNER TO FINISH LANDSCAPE

    I would get a diffrent bid from some one that knows ponds......to many open ends here on this bid.

    Just my 2 cents.................
    Koiman
    CDKPA

  2. #12
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    ...one Fluid Art Turbo Vortex Separator,(this is not a SC)
    http://www.pondtech.net/PDF's/TURBOV...N%20MANUAL.pdf
    What kind of "filter" is a FluidArt Vortex Separator?
    Mechanical?
    Is this really needed?

  3. #13
    Daihonmei
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    Holy Cow!
    the price seems to be about 4x what it should be for
    a 4500 gallon 3ft deep reflection pond

  4. #14
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDSD View Post
    Ummm.........have a few thoughts here.


    Description of work: LABOR: Dig a 20’ long x 10’ wide x 3’ deep pond with waterfall- Total Gallons+ 4500. (It can be made shorter and deeper but must equal 4500 plus gallons.)

    Why only 4500 gals?? Deeper is better.

    We all know that deeper is better, but he stated that it is good enough for New England area for freezing zone environment. It can be deeper like he stated but the price may go up as since there will be more digging involves with shorter lenght such as 18' or 16' x 10' x 4'.


    The walls will be built with cinder blocks.(cells filled with concrete? what is the footing size going to be? any steel in block?) The floor will be tapered prior to the liner being installed. The Underliner and 45 mil fish safe line is used. One, bottom drain with an aerator on top, one skimmer,(more then one would be good) 10K Sacramento Koi bead & glass filters with 2 HP blower, one `ultra violet sterilizer, waterfall, stone all around the perimeter

    Only one bottom drain? I would used at least 2 spaced out for better collection. Each drain is good for around 10-12' radius. Space out at 6-7' apart down middle.

    No SC chamber(s)

    As far as the cinder blocks, I don't know whether they will be filled with concrete or cement nor steel. He didn't mention that much about having two bottom drain for this construction since the construction is already costing too much.

    Pond Materials & Equipment:
    45 mil liner, Underliner, tape, glue, caulk, stone dust(Ok? stone dust) and cinder blocks, bottom drain with air diffuser, weighted hose line,(What do you need this for if your hard piped under liner to air pump?) skimmer, one 10K Sacramento Koi Advantage Bead & Glass Filter with 2 HP blower, one Fluid Art Turbo Vortex Separator,(this is not a SC)
    http://www.pondtech.net/PDF's/TURBOVORTEX%20INSTRUCTION%20MANUAL.pdf

    one Performance Pro ½ HP pump, one 100 watt Aqua Stainless Steel single bulb Ultra Violet Light Sterilizer, misc. plumbing and materials

    Ummm.... where is air pump to run bottom air dome(s) what size?


    TOTAL FOR COMPLETE WORK
    $37,709.90 ($8.25 per gallon app.)

    TOTAL EQUIPMENT INCLUDING FREIGHT-will be dropped shipped to your home
    $16,709.90

    $37,709.90 does that include the $16,709.90 or that in addition to price.

    $37,709.90 is the final price for all the work being done except the bottom part which stated NOT INCLUDED section. I don't know whether stones are for waterfall or something other purpose. Yes, I don't understand that excavator is not even include in the price which doesn't make any sense to me and other people.

    Not included: Stones,(Would this be for water fall? or coping around edge?)excavator (should be in price of bid, also where is the cost of removal of said dirt coming out of hole?) and electrical HOME OWNER TO FINISH LANDSCAPE

    I would get a diffrent bid from some one that knows ponds......to many open ends here on this bid.

    Just my 2 cents.................
    Thank you for giving me some info regarding my koi pond quote and I do appreciate your inputs since I know nothing about koi pond construction but I have some knowledge from reading here in the forum and koi magazines. This contractor has been told to be a pro for koi pond contractor who only builds koi pond. I have tried 5 different contractors in my area Boston, Mass. and most of them don't do bead filters, bottom drains, side jets, and others such as this contractor, therefore I don't know what to do. Most of those contractors are willing to do is having a skimmer with submergable pump, waterfall, rocks around the edge, and bottom ( have been told that having bottom rocks will be bad for the fish since it can create bateria, parasites and other disease and it is harder to clean and maintenaince), autofill, LED lights, 45 mil liner with underlayment of course and landscape is extra cost. None of these contractors will be able to do as this contractor but the cost is way too high. The cost for those contractors are around $8000 to $10000. My friend at work who has a backhoe and willing to help me dig the hole, but I don't know how to layout the koi pond construction epecially plumping, bottom drain, others. What is the reasonable price for this kind of koi pond construction with materials that contrator has given me. The rest of the contractors stated that either this contractor or my request is over engineer for koi pond.

    Quote Originally Posted by luke frisbee View Post
    Holy Cow!
    the price seems to be about 4x what it should be for
    a 4500 gallon 3ft deep reflection pond
    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Seems kind of expensive and more than I could afford.

    How much would it cost for YOU to hire somebody to dig the hole and haul the dirt away + hire somebody to do the cinder block and concrete work + you buy the liner, filter and pump?
    I personally don't know the cost of each individual component. I want hire only one contractor the do the job because multi-contractors can make things worse. I hope you guys will guide me to the right direction to have koi pond done because I love koi fish so much and I just don't have the knowledge of building one myself.

    Thank you for giving me some info regarding my koi pond quote and I do appreciate your inputs since I know nothing about koi pond construction but I have some knowledge from reading here in the forum and koi magazines. This contractor has been told to be a pro for koi pond contractor who only builds koi pond. I have tried 5 different contractors in my area Boston, Mass. and most of them don't do bead filters, bottom drains, side jets, and others such as this contractor, therefore I don't know what to do. Most of those contractors are willing to do is having a skimmer with submergable pump, waterfall, rocks around the edge, and bottom ( have been told that having bottom rocks will be bad for the fish since it can create bateria, parasites and other disease and it is harder to clean and maintenaince), autofill, LED lights, 45 mil liner with underlayment of course and landscape is extra cost. None of these contractors will be able to do as this contractor but the cost is way too high. The cost for those contractors are around $8000 to $10000. My friend at work who has a backhoe and willing to help me dig the hole, but I don't know how to layout the koi pond construction epecially plumping, bottom drain, others. What is the reasonable price for this kind of koi pond construction with materials that contrator has given me. The rest of the contractors stated that either this contractor or my request is over engineer for koi pond.

    Please help.

    Regards,

    Ken
    Last edited by knunhackable; 06-21-2010 at 03:42 PM. Reason: adding extra

  5. #15
    Tategoi KoiCCAPW's Avatar
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    Cupertino,Northern CA ,U.S.A.
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    Ken,

    To be able to know if a contractor will build you a good koi pond at a reasonable price, you first have to know what goes into a good koi pond.

    You will need to educate yourself at least on the basics, but luckily that doesn't take a huge amount of time. (The fine details can take a lifetime though, lol)

    Here are some links that can help you get some good knowledge under your belt.

    This link is to a club near me's info page; This has a wealth of reliable links related to koi keeping in general, but if you scroll down towards the bottom to the "Pond Building and Management" section you will find article links to the info you need right now.

    camelliakoi. org/ resources. htm

    These next links are to the AKCA (American Koi Clubs Association). The first is their web site on which you will find lots of good info also.

    AKCA - Associated Koi Clubs of America - Welcome To The

    The second is a link to a list of the AKCA Clubs across the country. It looks like there are 2 in Mass.
    AKCA Clubs

    There is also a second Club association in the USA and that is ZNA America. ZNA is a club that originated in Japan and now has chapters all over the world. They also are an excellent resource for koi keepers.

    Home Page

    Here is a link to their local chapters, looks like there's one not too far from you.-

    regional chapters



    A local club is IMO the best place to get referrals to good Koi Pond Contractors who know what they are doing. Get a list of them first and then get estimates of cost from these contractors who will do a good and correct job. It's no good to get an estimate for a pond that will not be good for koi keeping. And a true koi pond is not the same as a garden pond, although some have success with keeping koi in a garden pond, it's not the best for the koi and will be somewhat harder to do. In any case, IMO a garden pond should also have good filtration and bottom drains even if it's just for lilies and goldfish.

    So I would suggest do some of this reading first, familiarize yourself with what is a good koi pond, then join or at least contact a local AKCA club or a ZNA club for recommendations of koi pond contractors. Good luck, and happy koi keeping!
    Last edited by KoiCCAPW; 06-21-2010 at 05:21 PM. Reason: fixed link
    Barb

    Santa Clara Valley Koi & Water Garden Club

    http://www.sckoi.com

    Zen Nippon Airinkai Nor-Cal Chapter

    http://www.znanorcal.org

  6. #16
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Amelia Island, FL
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    Perhaps an Applicable Price Comparison?

    Knunhackable, you've been the recipient of a LOT of good advise here from several koi keepers with infinitely more practical experience that myself, and if you haven't been already, keep reading, reading and read some more on this and other sites. You will be the beneficiary of a lot of wisdom if you choose to avail yourself of it, and avoid a lot of heartaches along the way.

    Perhaps of some use for your original 'cost' questions, I would offer up only that I had a pond built two summers ago, similar to yours in many aspects, I believe. Total cost was several thousand less than the price you were quoted, but I hasten to add there are obviously many different factors such as labor costs, licensing fees, etc., that may make a true 'apples-to-apples' comparison somewhat truly difficult. None-the-less, here's what I had built for that price:

    1) 5400 gal., 5 feet deep pond
    2) Shotcrete/rebar swimming pool style construction
    3) Full electrical wiring (that part should be cheap)
    4) Two state-of-the art pond pumps, large bead filter, UV light filtering system
    5) Two skimmers
    6) Two bottom drains
    7) In pond LED lighting
    8) Pot-fill and waterfall system
    9) Four TPRs that really move the water around
    10) Auto-fill system (I know, that one's a controversial subject and I expect to catch some grief here from other posters shortly)
    11) Overflow drain (surprising how many ponds lack this simple addition)

    Surfacing patio around the pond, landscaping, etc were NOT included in this price, but as you can see, it was pretty much the complete package to get me started.

    Perhaps I misread your initial post, but this sounds to me much like the pond you are contemplating. I was very lucky, my general contractor knows koi pond construction and was not above learning much more along the way with me as we read, read some more, collaborated countless hours, and studied yet some more to build the best koi pond we could manage. It was a tremendous experience.

    Is the pond perfect? Not by a long shot, and if I had it to do over, here are just a few of the things I would have done different, or will add to my pond as time and $$ permits:

    1) Add biological filtration on the skimmer circuit --- can't have too much of that!

    2) Dig that pond deeper --- 5 ft is OK, 6, or even more is better.

    3) In-pond lighting for esthetics is fine, but overhead lighting really shows off the fish at night (other threads on Koi-Bito cover this in detail)

    3) Build the biggest pond your yard can handle and your spouse will permit --- you won't be sorry.

    I know much of this is a repetition of what else you've read, but perhaps this gives you a bit of a better feel for what you might be able to get for your money, geographical differences aside. And the best advise I've seen others give you, in my humble opinion, is to join a local koi club (or two!) and ask away. The club meetings alone can be great fun and you will hopefully experience the pleasure of some fine company (Our potlucks are so good I joke that ours is actually a gourmet dining club that manages to keep a few fish on the side). But if you show a genuine interest in the hobby and the well being of 'da fishies', any club member worth their salt will pump good advise at you faster than you can probably absorb it..... just remember to pass along the favor to other newbies some day.

    Good luck, I hope this helps, if even a bit, and enjoy the ride.

  7. #17
    Nisai KDSD's Avatar
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    Here is a link to a Koi club in Mass area:

    Pioneer Valley Pond Club Home Page

    Contact them and odds are they may have some builders that club members may recommend.

    Here is a link on there website to give you some visual idea's:

    Koi Pond

    This build is maybe more then your looking for but does give you an idea.

    For that price you were quoted you could get get 2-Nexus 210 Eazy, 2640 gph max flow, for ponds up to 4700 gallons one for each drain, 2- Cetus sieve's, 2 pumps-Cascade C1/8-26 2616 GPH @ 4',Savio Skimmer Filter with 16 inch Faceplate,2- Aqua Ultraviolet 80 watt UV's...this just gives you an idea.

  8. #18
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDSD View Post
    Here is a link to a Koi club in Mass area:

    Pioneer Valley Pond Club Home Page

    Contact them and odds are they may have some builders that club members may recommend.

    Here is a link on there website to give you some visual idea's:

    Koi Pond

    This build is maybe more then your looking for but does give you an idea.

    For that price you were quoted you could get get 2-Nexus 210 Eazy, 2640 gph max flow, for ponds up to 4700 gallons one for each drain, 2- Cetus sieve's, 2 pumps-Cascade C1/8-26 2616 GPH @ 4',Savio Skimmer Filter with 16 inch Faceplate,2- Aqua Ultraviolet 80 watt UV's...this just gives you an idea.
    The July 10th "pond tour" would be a great resource and place to start!
    Pond Tour

  9. #19
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    New Quote

    Hey guys,

    Here is another Koi Pond quote that I got it yesterday. Please advice and tell me whether it is good a price or do a little bargain for this koi pond to be done or perhaps it could be better components with this price.

    Install new koi pond with rough dimensions to be 11’ x 20’ x 4’ deep including the following:
    Excavate hole for pond, supply and install underlayment fabric, liner, (2) 3” bottom drains, (2) 9” air diffusers, weighted air hose, air pump, Fluidart bead filter system (60 Ultimate) with ½ HP pump and an Electra Pro UV 10, Savio skimmer with 16” faceplate, auto fill sensor valve, 1 HP Pentair Lifegard Sea Flow pump (230v), Aquafalls waterfall filter system, Fiber optic lighting system with 8 lights, coping and waterfall stones.

    Included
    All electrical work associated with pond filtration and pump wiring – includes electrical permit

    Included
    Work to exclude other permits required by City of Methuen
    Excluded
    Includes call to Digsafe

    Included
    Landscaping around pond : ADD $10,000 to price

    Excluded

    Total
    $35,920.00
    Thank you for your help and time.

    Ken

  10. #20
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    A few things to consider.
    A 1hp pump for a pond this size is not only overkill for initial investment, the operating cost from month to month will be cost prohibitive. The model quoted also under-delivers on volume when compared to others I've seen, including my own 3/4 hp that throws 140gpm at the same head as this one at only 113gpm. If you go with a more efficient pump you'll likely only need 1/2 hp (at most) to deliver the kind of turnover you need.
    Also, while bead filters are great for polishing water they aren't all that great for biofiltration. You are tying up a lot of extra money in things that are functionally peripheral while shortchanging yourself on the essentials.

    So much depends on your basic design, and the need for high head pumps is the expensive exception to the rule. Look a little further through some of the construction threads at low head alternatives that could add up to a substantial cost savings both initially and in day to day operation.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

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