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Thread: My new pond

  1. #21
    Tosai
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    I was told to figure out the plumbing and bd etc before picking out filtration equipment...But I am completely new to this.

  2. #22
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruhkus View Post

    I was told to figure out the plumbing and bd etc before picking out filtration equipment...But I am completely new to this.
    Let’s start thinking about filtration.

    Okay, we can already assume that you plan on having a skimmer and at least one bottom drain, and the water returning to the pond will come from three water falls and possibly some jets, correct?

    Will the pond water to the filtration system be coming from the bottom drain or mid pond?
    There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

    How will you do water changes (drain the pond)?

    Will the water from the pond be going first to a pump or gravity flow to a sump (or sieve)? Have you considered using a bakki shower? Have you considered having your concrete contractor build a filter box?

    I would strongly recommend using an energy efficient pump like a Sequence. When using energy efficient pumps, it is a good idea to have efficient plumbing, i.e. minimum friction and back pressure, which means proper planning to reduce or eliminate elbows and bends.

    These are things I would think about before pouring concrete.

  3. #23
    Tosai
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    I was planning on having the return come right to the pond on the narrow side trhought tgr. I was planning on running the waterfalls on individuals pumps, just running them all when I am back there. There is no sense running 4 waterfalls 24/7.

    I guess I am having 1 4" aerated bottom drain and I am going to run it to a dual gravity fed cetus sieve and nexus 310...then pumped back through a uv and into the pond..

    Well that is what I thought anyway. Like I said I am a beginner trying to catch up on this steep learning curve

  4. #24
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    I'm laughing as well! Consensus? On a Koi forum?

    You are getting a lot of good advice from knowledgable folks. I will add, however, that there seems to be a trend in advising new pond builders to veer towards the very best conceivable filtration strategy. You may find that you will have to make some compromises.

    You are describing a fairly sophisticated design which relys heavily on being very well-integrated into your deck. This is not a simple hole-in-the-ground where you can simply re-dig if you get it wrong. I would therefore like to make a couple of suggestions:

    1. You have not discussed much about construction methods. Based on this design, I assume that you are doing poured concrete or stacked and filled blocks? You want a concrete contractor who really knows his stuff. Use lots of rebar, get the highest PSI mix (and make sure it is fresh!), add reinforcement fibers, etc.

    2. PVC/ABS pipe is cheap. Some folks may say you can get by with a single Bottom Drain (BD) if you slope the bottom of the pond; others may feel that you need as many as four BDs. Then there are TPRs, which some folks highly recommend and other folks manage to not even use at all. I really don't know what you'll end up needing, but if you are going to pour/stack a concrete pond, it is hard to change things after the fact. You can also close the valve on an un-used line, however.

    My point is simply that -- given the scope of this project -- make sure that the pond itself is well-made, and that adequate (even extra) plumbing lines are incorporated. Everything else can be modified after the fact.
    I agree with Paultergeist that you will not get a consensus.

    Decisions on pond design usually fall into two categories.

    One is the pond owner relies and puts their trust in a competent pond builder.
    On another thread a person is asking for pond contractor recommendations. Some pond builders are better than others (putting it nicely).

    The other method is for the pond owner to accept the responsibility of the pond design and hire a contractor (or do the work themselves). This is the category you fall in.

    Ruhkus, It sounds like you are on the right track by looking for advice, but the final decision is yours.

  5. #25
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I'm confused. If you're going to run 1 BD to 2 sieves and Nexus units, why don't you want 2 BD's? 1 going to each circuit. That's how it should be.

    If you try to "y" off 1 drain to 2 circuits, you're going to have to put valves so you can equal out the flow to each. One will flow more than the other.

    Filtration isn't all about the number of gallons. It's stocking rates, feeding, maintenance, etc.

    1 4" BD can only flow about 4000 gph. I don't remember the exact number.

    As a good friend of mine always says, "It's a system". The pumps have to match the plumbing, the plumbing has to match the pond, the pond and filtration have to match its use.

    I don't know what to tell you about the correct slope. I don't think there is a degree of slope written in stone. You just have to slope the sides to the drains and round all the corners so there is no area for muck to collect.

    Again, think of it as a toilet. All the water in the pond should pass through the BD at least once an hour in your size pond. All the debris on the top should push/pull to the skimmer. All the buoyant and sinking trash should make it to the bottom drain to be filtered out.

    A shower would be a great addition but in the design you have, I don't know where you would put it. Showers are not easy to hide.

    BD's are usually 4". TPR's are 2". Use long sweep ell's. Make as few turns as possible.
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

  6. #26
    Tosai
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    Originally I went to the local pond shops and they all contradicted eachother. Then I started to research myself and realized that they were close to clueless and they were in the business. When I walked in and asked about bottom drains, settling tanks and pre filters they looked at me like I was speaking a different language. All you need is a skimmer and a filter most told me...

    I soon realized I had to take charge and try to learn this myself and the the learning curve is steep. Anyway I am looking for as much help as I can get. My ideas change daily. But how does

    2 4" bds and 2 skimmers pump fed into 2 cetus sieves, then into one nexus 310 to a UV and back out to TPR.

    I would have about a 1 foot slope from the narrow end to the deep end, trying to aim the flow to push settlement to the drains.

    Do I need to add a bead filter as well? If I am trusting the manuals this sytem could handle like 11,00 plus gallons and my pond mya only be around 4000.

    Does this all sound logical or am I sounding like a rambling fool?

  7. #27
    Tosai
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    I just had to share this from another forum of the system that is being recommended to me. My head is spinning I never thought a filtration system would add up to over 20,000 for a 4000 gallon pond. I read to budget at most 3 dollars per gallon for a DIY. And that 20k does not even include pouring concrete or forms.


    ((((((Here are my estimates of what I am reading from you. (other site)

    Cetus X 3 = 3300
    Nexus 310 = 2800
    Bio filter= 2000
    UV = 1100
    Pumps = 1000
    foam thingy = 200?????
    skimmers = 600
    bottom drains = 1000
    air pumps = 600
    valves, pipes etc = 1000
    Waterfall weirs = 1500
    waterfall pumps = 1500
    misc = 1000 (atleast)
    TPR and GPR = ?????
    tax =????

    we are at over 20,000 for a 4000 gallon pond and that is just for plumbing, pumps and filtration. That does not even include forms or concrete etc... I am beginning to think you are all rich, I am sucker or I am getting involved in the wrong hobby. It might be cheaper to put a down payment on another house.

    I really do appreciate all the help Boggen, but please tell me I am missing something, because all the sudden I can think of better things to do with 30,000 for a 4000 gallon pond.

    So all these set ups that I see people running with just a nexus with a UV nothing else are all using a useless system? I hope other people can weigh in on this, because my head is spinning.))))))

  8. #28
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Who do you plan to buy the EA unit from? You might be able to get some "professional" hands on help with the details of your plumbing design etc... from them. I don't know if you were planning to contract this construction or do it yourself but the details do make a huge difference on any pond. One such as this with a stylized modernistic look will need to be carefully detailed to make sure that everything works and "fits" the space.

  9. #29
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I'll get back to you when I get to work but please answer these questions.

    Can you DIY your filtration and do you want to?

    Are you using 2 Nexus and 2 Cetus?

    NO, you do not need to spend $20,000 on filtration. Not even close to that.

  10. #30
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I can't help you with the cost of buying your filtration because I've always built mine.

    All I can tell you is if this were my pond, I'd:


    • Have 2 BD in the stream section and 1 in the boxed area


    • Have 1 skimmer across from the waterfalls close to the end of the stream


    • Have each BD circuit hooked to a static chamber but in your case a Cetus, to he pump, to a moving bed returning to TPR's


    • Have the skimmer hooked to a pump to a sand/gravel filter to a Bakki Shower returning to the waterfall.

    If you DIY everything; the plumbing, 3 energy efficient pumps and filtration should cost less than $2500 including the media. I don't know what Cetus cost so you'd have to add that cost in.

    Again, everyone has their own idiosyncrasies when it comes to how they design and build their ponds. As long as you get the basics right, it will work. You'll always have to tweak it after it's complete.

    I don't like bead filters, not saying there's anything wrong with them, I just don't like them. I've had ponds for 20+ years and have never needed a UV light. My ponds are always in full sun. The 1st year or two you're going to have green water till the pond matures so if you can't live with that, put in a UV with a way to shut it off when it isn't needed anymore. The 1' of slope should be fine.

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