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Thread: My new pond

  1. #31
    Honmei
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    Kntry asked me to stop by and offer some assistance. I could tell you exactly how to build the pond and odds are that you would change something here or there due to a lack of understanding why things are done the way they should be done. So, instead of that approach, I would suggest reading the series, "It's a System" on the KOI USA website, article archive to first get a comprehension level of design parameters.

    Login

    Note, you need to be a KOI USA subscriber to log in. The ID is "subscriber" and the password is your subscription number minus the leading zeros.

    The list of equipment you posted is way too long IMHO. Without knowing the actual dimensions, a 4000 gallon pond would typically have 1 skimmer, 1 diffuser bottom drain. 2 pumps, a 1/8 hp on the bottom drain to a Nexus. The skimmer would gravity feed to a Cetus and a 1/4 hp pump to bead filter followed by a UV. The skimmer circuit would feed the waterfall with a bypass directly to the pond and the bottom drain circuit would feed a TPR (or two). An added midlevel could be set and stubbed out to the filter area for future use if needed.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]om
    CKHPA

  2. #32
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruhkus View Post
    I just had to share this from another forum of the system that is being recommended to me. My head is spinning I never thought a filtration system would add up to over 20,000 for a 4000 gallon pond. I read to budget at most 3 dollars per gallon for a DIY. And that 20k does not even include pouring concrete or forms.


    ((((((Here are my estimates of what I am reading from you. (other site)

    Cetus X 3 = 3300
    Nexus 310 = 2800
    Bio filter= 2000
    UV = 1100
    Pumps = 1000
    foam thingy = 200?????
    skimmers = 600
    bottom drains = 1000
    air pumps = 600
    valves, pipes etc = 1000
    Waterfall weirs = 1500
    waterfall pumps = 1500
    misc = 1000 (atleast)
    TPR and GPR = ?????
    tax =????

    we are at over 20,000 for a 4000 gallon pond and that is just for plumbing, pumps and filtration. That does not even include forms or concrete etc... I am beginning to think you are all rich, I am sucker or I am getting involved in the wrong hobby. It might be cheaper to put a down payment on another house.

    I really do appreciate all the help Boggen, but please tell me I am missing something, because all the sudden I can think of better things to do with 30,000 for a 4000 gallon pond.

    So all these set ups that I see people running with just a nexus with a UV nothing else are all using a useless system? I hope other people can weigh in on this, because my head is spinning.))))))
    Many ways to skin a cat. Some are gold plated with diamonds and rubies as accouterments, others strictly utilitarian, and everything imaginable in between. When form overtakes function you get the "look" without the "goods". Go too far the other way and you have an ugly hole that fish can live well in.

    If you want a "Better Homes and Gardens" Koi pond that also provides an ideal environment for Koi you can spend a small fortune. If you are good at DIY stuff you can come in WAY below that, but you still have to have the minimums for good water that is easy to keep that way.

    You already know the "look" you are going for, so keep that in mind as you begin.

    Set you goals for function first as that is essential no matter how you achieve them. If you want healthy water that is easily maintained you start by selecting the proper equipment that will maintain your water well while providing you with ease of maintenance. If you don't have ease of maintenance it will NOT get done because it is such a hassle.

    Remember. Filtration is a function of fish load, not water volume. Decide NOW how many Koi you realistically intend to have and size your filtration to accommodate that number comfortably. It would be wise to overshoot the filter capacity by 25%. Trust me

    Once you have established the equipment needs you determine the space requirements for it to be housed in that don't take away from your aesthetic goals. Then you design the final structure for pond form and aesthetics that will easily incorporate the filtration into the finished product. If you chisel the aesthetics in granite first you are then stuck trying to figure out how to cram the filtration in like some sort of annoying afterthought.

    You don't have to spend a Kings Ransom, but the more you want to do the more it will cost to do. Look around at some of the other ponds and filtration systems in this sub forum and you may find some very functional ideas that bring the price tag down toward a "reality" you can fall in love with
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  3. #33
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Note, you need to be a KOI USA subscriber to log in. The ID is "subscriber" and the password is your subscription number minus the leading zeros.

    Steve
    Isn't the information needed for the password located on an envelope that the magazine comes in and most subscribers throw away?

  4. #34
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Isn't the information needed for the password located on an envelope that the magazine comes in and most subscribers throw away?
    Not the smart ones.

  5. #35
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Please keep in mind that the information Steve wrote is for a symmetrically shaped pond where there aren't angles to disrupt the flow of water.

  6. #36
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntry View Post
    I'll get back to you when I get to work but please answer these questions.

    Can you DIY your filtration and do you want to?

    Are you using 2 Nexus and 2 Cetus?

    NO, you do not need to spend $20,000 on filtration. Not even close to that.

    I wanted to make this as much of a DIY as I could. I enjoy building things. But I obviously need help. I thought I was graciously being given some on another forum and I probably was. But all sudden the "only" alternative was 20k (just for filtration) and I would have a foggy pond if I didnt. And that was just for filtration

    I do not know if I am using 2 nexus and 2 sieves. That seems excessive to me, but I am no expert. According to the numbers I could filter 10,000-20,000 gallons wit that set up.

    I want to use aqua evolution products, I have a good price on them and hear great things. But I am back to square one on how to set this thing up again.

    Thanks for all the support, my head was spinning last night from a 20,000 quote for a 4000 gallon pond. Esepcially for a hobbyist.

    Any help on how to plumb this thing with aqua evolution components would be appreciated beyond belief. A realistic way.

  7. #37
    Tosai
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    Schildkoi,

    I cannot login into that site. I'll have to figure out a way to do it. I really thought I would be pouring concrete by now, but instead I have a mud pit in my backyard.

    The rendrings and dimensions of the pond are on the first page of this thread. I would appreciate you taking a look and telling me what you think.

  8. #38
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    My .02 here probably isn't worth much because I've only used DIY filtration.

    Based on the Cetus flowing max 4000 gph and the Nexus 300 flowing 3430 gph max, this would filter a 9000 gallon pond according to the manufacturer specs. They are always over rated. BTW, you never did state how many fish you plan on putting in this pond and are you planning on showing, having a mixed pond or only females. This all matters.

    It seems like you are set on 1 BD/circuit so I would use this equipment, gravity fed to a 6,000 gph pump because you're going to lose head through the pipes. If you want to add a UV and bead, I honestly have no idea where they would go in the set up but I would think it would be after the Nexus because that would be the cleanest water. Put the BD at the end of the stream where it opens up.

    Don't forget that you're going to need a 4" pipe for water changes going to drainage and a place to clean out the Nexus.

    Think on this, too. If you only have 1 circuit/BD, you have nothing to fall back on if that circuit goes down. It's always a VERY good idea to have 2 if for no other reason.

    Maybe someone else that uses manufactured components will offer some advice.

    FWIW, I had to set up a temp 16x4' pool for my fish 2 years ago. It was round so there were no obstructions to water/debris movement. I had 2 BD's, each going to a static chamber and 2 moving beds to a shower. I had about 20 cu ft of media in the moving beds and 9000 bio balls in the shower. The skimmer went to a sand/gravel filter. The pond & filtration were about 5600 gallons. I had 14 big girls in there, 10 of which were 25-30". The other 4 were 14-16". The bottom of the pool stayed clean and I never had water quality issues other than green water the 1st Spring since the pond was new even though it was overstocked. My point is, it's better to be over filtered than have water quality issues and have to either build a new pond or find homes for some of your koi because they're getting sick.
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

  9. #39
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruhkus View Post
    I wanted to make this as much of a DIY as I could. I enjoy building things. But I obviously need help. I thought I was graciously being given some on another forum and I probably was. But all sudden the "only" alternative was 20k (just for filtration) and I would have a foggy pond if I didnt. And that was just for filtration

    I do not know if I am using 2 nexus and 2 sieves. That seems excessive to me, but I am no expert. According to the numbers I could filter 10,000-20,000 gallons wit that set up.

    I want to use aqua evolution products, I have a good price on them and hear great things. But I am back to square one on how to set this thing up again.

    Thanks for all the support, my head was spinning last night from a 20,000 quote for a 4000 gallon pond. Esepcially for a hobbyist.

    Any help on how to plumb this thing with aqua evolution components would be appreciated beyond belief. A realistic way.
    I am not sure, but I do not think I have ever met a person who spent more than 5K for a filtering system for a 5000 gallon or smaller pond. 2.5K - 3K is probably the average. Most of my friends are DIYers and the better "experts" have experience with aquariums and reef systems.

    I am getting mixed messages from you. You drop product names like you want to use expensive off the shelf items but then hint that you are on a budget. It is none of my business, but what is YOUR budget for filtration?

  10. #40
    Tosai
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    I have no idea how many fish or what the system could handle. I just want to ease into this hobby and see where it takes me. I am not going to sit here and say I want to show fish after never having raised them. My interest is typical I just want it to become a hobby and build from there, but I want to do it right the first time.

    In terms of name dropping expensive equipment, I really did not even know that was super expensive equipment. I figured filtration would cost like 5000 for this smallish pond. Then all the sudden I felt like a cheap ass. I dont mind building the pond myself, but I am not sure I want to tackle building the filtration and someone said nexus was good, so I said okay?

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