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Thread: Where to put the check valve?

  1. #11
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    Okay this is really embarrassing. I went out to the pond with a tube of aquarium sealant thinking somehow maybe air was getting into the works and causing my priming problem.

    I don't know why I never heard this before but when I shut the pump off and was messing with the tube of sealant, I heard this noise. I didn't have one of those little turny things on the lid of the priming pot tight and it was sucking air. I don't know what they're called!

    So I tightened it.

    Anyway, I also found the major problem and I don't know why this is happening all of a sudden.

    In order to help get some of the poo out before the filter (no SC or anything like that), last week I put a 2" filter mat on top of the basket in the priming pot. Twice a day I remove it and slap it over bare spots in my yard. It's catching a lot of stuff.

    So anyway, because the mat was there, I didn't notice that when I fill up the priming pot, the water was indeed going down fast but I had assumed it was going out of the pipe and back into the pond which would have meant a malfunctioning check valve.

    When I lifted the mat up, however, I noticed for the first time that the water was dropping below the level of the pipe. I check the plumbing after and under the pump, no leaks.

    Surely, I thought, the water couldn't be going out of the filter and back into the pond???

    I ran to the garage and got a shutoff valve, cut the return pipe, and installed the shutoff valve (edited for readability).

    I turned it off, filled the priming pot, and guess what? The water level stayed right where it was!!!

    I have no clue why this is going on but I put the lid on, opened the turn-off, and voila, water level stayed where it was in the priming pot.

    I experimented several times, filling the priming pot with the shutoff valve either opened and closed and yes indeedy that is the problem. Open it, water leaves the priming pot. Close it, water stays in.

    Is that weird or what?
    ...enjoy your day!
    5500 gllns, Ultima II 4000, Tarpon 6000, 1 Multi-Cyclone Prefilter, 2 - 5500 gph pumps, 1 Retro BD, 1 skimmer, max depth 4', 5% trickle 24/7 weather permitting

  2. #12
    eds
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    Do you mean you didn't have the lid tightened down completely and it was sucking in air or something else? Even if the first problem is sorted it'd be good to get the pipe through the pond wall at some point as it's a much more dependable system than a syphon going over a pond wall! It's not as hard as you think!

  3. #13
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    I had the lid down tight but there are two little black things with seals that go in two little holes on the lid that you unscrew to let air in to make it easier to get the lid off. I don't do that though, I just put the lid on. Well, I guess one of them got loose over time and was letting air in.

    Eds, I've been thinking a lot about this retro bottom drain pipe and agree with you (and everybody else whose told me this) that I really need to go through the liner. I'm going to keep looking until I find a competent pond person to do it for me. I hope this last guy I called can do it. We'll see when he calls me back.

    It occured to me that if I go through the liner, I'll be set up to add a sieve at some point and I'd really love to have one of those. That is one of my dreams and not a whole lot more money than I paid for the Ultima II 4000.

    Hey, you only go around this way once, right? (well, I guess that depends on your beliefs--but at least you only go around in this life once, right?)

  4. #14
    eds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppy View Post
    Hey, you only go around this way once, right?
    Don't know about that; I'm planning pond number 4 at the moment! (Not including the quarantine pond!).

  5. #15
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    LOL! But I meant you only go through this life once...

  6. #16
    Honmei
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    Let me jump in a little here. Is it possible for you to post a drawing of your own showing your planned installation including whether or not the pump is above or below pond elevation and whether you are going up and over or through a bulkhead? Also, whether or not there is a separatioin chamber or not before the pump (like shown in the second diagram.

    There are numerous ways to lose prime. In addition to electrical outages, gas bubbles can build in "up and overs" (more likely on gravity feed systems like the sec0nd diagram. You not only have to worry about losing prime, but also how to reprime should prime be lost.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  7. #17
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    Oooo, I forgot about this thread. Sorry!

    Thanks for jumping in, schildkoi. Soon as I get somebody willing to come out here and put a hole in my liner and install the bulkhead, I'll post a drawing.

    Was out there yesterday messing around and tried to put a venturi on one of the return pipes and low and behold, water started leaking from two fittings! So the mystery of where the air is coming from is solved. Aside from the obvious not having stuff tight on the priming pot.

    I don't know if the fates are trying to tell me I'm not supposed to have koi or if having koi is supposed to be a challenge. I can't seem to do anything right when it comes to that pond and I'm on my last nerve about the whole thing.

    I have 2 diffusers coming from two 150 each air pumps--one nearly on top of the retro BD and one a couple feet away.

    I decided to attach one to the retro BD so it would sit right on top of it instead of nearly on top. Long story short, I ended up with a mess on my hands, BD wouldn't stay down with diffuser attached, had to pull it all back up, pieces wouldn't go back together, etc., when our middle son, off on vacation, showed up and saved the day and fixed it for me. This is not the first time he's rescued me at the pond from some sort of plumbing disaster.

    This is why I want a professional to go through the liner for me. My history does not bode well for plumbing that can be screwed up so easily.

  8. #18
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    schildkoi, I finally have a drawing!

    But when I upload it, the resolution is terrible. It's big. I did it in paint but no matter how I save it or resize it, it's not readable after uploaded.

    Any helpful hints?

  9. #19
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppy View Post
    schildkoi, I finally have a drawing!

    But when I upload it, the resolution is terrible. It's big. I did it in paint but no matter how I save it or resize it, it's not readable after uploaded.

    Any helpful hints?
    Email it to me and I will take a look.

    [email protected]
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  10. #20
    Honmei
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    OK Peppy I have your drawing and will try and post and give some advice.

    Based on your drawing there are a couple things to add. I have drawn in two different water levels, "A" and "B". At water level "A", the pump is fully flooded since it sits below water level. A check valve would not be needed. That being said, a valve is needed where the check valve is shown so that the pump can be isolated and removed if necessary during maintenance or replacement.

    Now, with water level "B", the check valve provides for priming since the pump sits aove water level. That being said, there would still be a large area of air between the valve, and back to the pond water level and the pump could once again lose its prime. In this situation, the check valve should be placed at or below the water level so that refilling the line fully can be accomplished.

    Now, another point. Although I appluad yourt efforts to put in a bottom drain, a powered, direct suction version will pull in a lot of crap that can foul the check valve and or the pump basket so be prepared to be able to clean both regularly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Where to put the check valve?-po9nd2.jpg  
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]m
    CKHPA

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