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Thread: Plumbing for a Shower

  1. #1
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    219

    Plumbing for a Shower

    I am in the process of adding a shower filter to my pond. I plan to route the water from my two large Savio skimmers(16"weirs) to the shower. I am asking for help to reroute the plumbing for maximum flow to the shower. My current pump for this circuit is a Performance Pro Artesian 1/2-75.
    At present I have two 4" lines from the skimmers- one from each. These two lines are wyed together into a 4" line that feeds a 55 gallon barrel filled with strapping. The exit line from the barrel is a 4" line that is immediately reduced to a 2" line that feeds into the pump. At present I have to valve back the flow from the pump because it sucks the barrel dry. The 2" line goes to the top of a short stream which feeds the koi pond.
    It is 58 feet from the closest skimmer to the wye and another 4 feet to where the 90 up to the barrel is. There is an additional 18 foot distance from the second skimmer. There is a 7 foot drop from the skimmer to the floor of the filter house, but only a 2 foot drop from the skimmer level to the top of the pipe where the water exits into the barrel.
    The distance from the pump to the top of the stream is 75feet with 4 90's. There is an eight foot elevation gain from the pump to the top of the stream. There will be a gain of about 10 feet to the top of the shower, the exit from the shower will be a foot above the top of the stream so it will gravity flow.
    To improve flow TO the pump would it be better to
    1. Wye the two skimmer lines into a 6" pipe that feeds the barrel( requires removing barrel from all pipes to rebore and add 6" inflow pipe).
    2. Remove the wye before the barrel and feed the second skimmer line into the barrel thru a second 4" input.
    3. Separate skimmer lines with one feeding the barrel and the second line bypassing the barrel and wying directly into the 2' input line to the pump.
    4. Any other suggestions?

    Does it make any difference to flow whether the output line from the barrel is immediately reduced to a 2" line as it exits the barrel or have it reduced to 2" right before the pump? (a difference of about 6-8 feet total pipe length and 3 4" or 2" 90's.

    On the shower end will I get better flow by reducing the height of the shower and splitting the flow to two stacks. Does it significantly affect the total flow to your shower to split your inflow pipe at the top into 2 or three lines?
    I appreciate all the help I can get on this!!! Thanks in advance!
    Here a a couple of pics of the skimmer barrel filter and lines as well as a view from the filter house up and from across the pond down.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Plumbing for a Shower-img_4291.jpg   Plumbing for a Shower-img_4295.jpg   Plumbing for a Shower-img_4297.jpg   Plumbing for a Shower-dsc05408.jpg   Plumbing for a Shower-dsc05410.jpg  


  2. #2
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
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    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    I am in the process of adding a shower filter to my pond. I plan to route the water from my two large Savio skimmers(16"weirs) to the shower. I am asking for help to reroute the plumbing for maximum flow to the shower. My current pump for this circuit is a Performance Pro Artesian 1/2-75.
    At present I have two 4" lines from the skimmers- one from each. These two lines are wyed together into a 4" line that feeds a 55 gallon barrel filled with strapping. The exit line from the barrel is a 4" line that is immediately reduced to a 2" line that feeds into the pump. At present I have to valve back the flow from the pump because it sucks the barrel dry. The 2" line goes to the top of a short stream which feeds the koi pond.
    It is 58 feet from the closest skimmer to the wye and another 4 feet to where the 90 up to the barrel is. There is an additional 18 foot distance from the second skimmer. There is a 7 foot drop from the skimmer to the floor of the filter house, but only a 2 foot drop from the skimmer level to the top of the pipe where the water exits into the barrel.
    The distance from the pump to the top of the stream is 75feet with 4 90's. There is an eight foot elevation gain from the pump to the top of the stream. There will be a gain of about 10 feet to the top of the shower, the exit from the shower will be a foot above the top of the stream so it will gravity flow.
    To improve flow TO the pump would it be better to
    1. Wye the two skimmer lines into a 6" pipe that feeds the barrel( requires removing barrel from all pipes to rebore and add 6" inflow pipe).
    2. Remove the wye before the barrel and feed the second skimmer line into the barrel thru a second 4" input.
    3. Separate skimmer lines with one feeding the barrel and the second line bypassing the barrel and wying directly into the 2' input line to the pump.
    4. Any other suggestions?

    Does it make any difference to flow whether the output line from the barrel is immediately reduced to a 2" line as it exits the barrel or have it reduced to 2" right before the pump? (a difference of about 6-8 feet total pipe length and 3 4" or 2" 90's.

    On the shower end will I get better flow by reducing the height of the shower and splitting the flow to two stacks. Does it significantly affect the total flow to your shower to split your inflow pipe at the top into 2 or three lines?
    I appreciate all the help I can get on this!!! Thanks in advance!
    Here a a couple of pics of the skimmer barrel filter and lines as well as a view from the filter house up and from across the pond down.

    You said; "At present I have to valve back the flow from the pump because it sucks the barrel dry."
    If I understand you correctly, you are focusing on the wrong area of the plumbing for the shower filter in my opinion.
    Why not add a "T" on "the 2" line that goes to the top of a short stream which feeds the koi pond" and have the 2" "T" go UP to the top of the shower filter?
    Then have the water that exits the shower filter gravity flow to the pond?
    The height that the pump has to pump the water to the stream AND the shower filter is called "HEAD" and is going to add back pressure to the pump outlet like the valve you have.
    You still may need to increase the size of the inflow pipe to the pump if the pump still pumps the barrel dry.

  3. #3
    Tategoi powerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    anacortes washington
    Posts
    475
    if your barrel has too much draw down or getting pumped dry, i would re-plumb both four inch lines to feed it without the wye....i am assuming that the barrel is set to the height of the skimmers....or pond water level so that you are using the whole barrel since it is gravity fed, height is very important.....and i guess this poly strapping barrel is your pre filter to get any skimmer collected debris out ahead of the pump....as long as there is no obstruction in your skimmer or gravity fed four inch lines they should be able to keep up with the pump if you are getting full flow from each...i am using one of these same pumps to draw from a vortex system gravity fed with a four inch bottom drain and also from a three inch mid level intake...if the mid level intake gets plugged with algae then the pump will suck the vortex dry as the four inch line can't keep up with out the extra water from the three inch mid water intake....a 55 gallon drum will be even more fickle... so either solution you came up with would work...wye them into a six inch line and then to your 55 gallon barrel or bring each four inch line into the barrel separately...

    now the shower itself...i would go with one tall shower instead of two shorter ones...mainly because a bakki shower works best on a higher flow rate...so one shower fed by this pump will be a higher flow rate over the media than two showers fed by this same pump each with a lower flow over the media....i would recommend using a three inch line to run from your pump to the shower, however as you will be able to flow alot more water than if you ran only a two inch line...i know you come off your pump with a two inch but the three most of the way helps alot....i learned this one the hard way..and i had to add a second two inch line later....and it increased my flow rate...i would of rather had one three inch line instead of two two inch lines but it is what it is.......also i had parallel bakki showers but removed one and added a clarity unit and made the bakki taller and i think it works better....

  4. #4
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    You said; "At present I have to valve back the flow from the pump because it sucks the barrel dry."
    If I understand you correctly, you are focusing on the wrong area of the plumbing for the shower filter in my opinion.
    Why not add a "T" on "the 2" line that goes to the top of a short stream which feeds the koi pond" and have the 2" "T" go UP to the top of the shower filter?
    Then have the water that exits the shower filter gravity flow to the pond?
    The height that the pump has to pump the water to the stream AND the shower filter is called "HEAD" and is going to add back pressure to the pump outlet like the valve you have.
    You still may need to increase the size of the inflow pipe to the pump if the pump still pumps the barrel dry.
    The shower will be situated such that it will gravity flow to the short stream. I am looking for the best options to get the most water to the shower. I understand the definition of "HEAD" and am working to minimize it up to a point. My pump basically requires 7 ft of head to perform optimally.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerman View Post
    if your barrel has too much draw down or getting pumped dry, i would re-plumb both four inch lines to feed it without the wye....i am assuming that the barrel is set to the height of the skimmers....or pond water level so that you are using the whole barrel since it is gravity fed, height is very important.....and i guess this poly strapping barrel is your pre filter to get any skimmer collected debris out ahead of the pump....as long as there is no obstruction in your skimmer or gravity fed four inch lines they should be able to keep up with the pump if you are getting full flow from each...i am using one of these same pumps to draw from a vortex system gravity fed with a four inch bottom drain and also from a three inch mid level intake...if the mid level intake gets plugged with algae then the pump will suck the vortex dry as the four inch line can't keep up with out the extra water from the three inch mid water intake....a 55 gallon drum will be even more fickle... so either solution you came up with would work...wye them into a six inch line and then to your 55 gallon barrel or bring each four inch line into the barrel separately...

    now the shower itself...i would go with one tall shower instead of two shorter ones...mainly because a bakki shower works best on a higher flow rate...so one shower fed by this pump will be a higher flow rate over the media than two showers fed by this same pump each with a lower flow over the media....i would recommend using a three inch line to run from your pump to the shower, however as you will be able to flow alot more water than if you ran only a two inch line...i know you come off your pump with a two inch but the three most of the way helps alot....i learned this one the hard way..and i had to add a second two inch line later....and it increased my flow rate...i would of rather had one three inch line instead of two two inch lines but it is what it is.......also i had parallel bakki showers but removed one and added a clarity unit and made the bakki taller and i think it works better....
    Thanks, Powerman. Do you think it makes any difference if the outflow from the barrel(yes, mechanical only and set at pond water level) is 4" to just outside the pump or 2" all the way to the pump(inflow)?
    How far past your pump do you switch to the 3" line? As long as I am digging would you get any more flow from a 4" line? Enough to keep it from clogging? Are you using the US Plastics Stak Paks for your shower? How many trays is your tall shower? Thanks for all your help.

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