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Thread: "Koi-Kichi" Filter

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcuss View Post
    So once again, you completely dodge the question with your nonsense. I guess I should be used to it by now.

    The fact that dye dissipates in the water is EXACTLY the point in using it. I'll go slow for you here...

    You say that my filters have water sitting stagnant and swirling because they're not ERIC design. I have dissolved PP in my water allowing me to visually observe the water tracking through my system. So again, the PP turned my entire settlement raceway purple. I then turned on the pump for that circuit and observed the water going from purple to clear in short order indicating that ALL of the water in my settlement is moving on to filtration and not swirling indefinately. I then observed the purple water entering my aerated filter. ALL the water in this filter turned an even tone of purple and then clear again as the water moved on to my static filter. By the time the water was getting clearer in the static filter, purple water was on it's way back into the moving bed filter so I never witnessed the entire static filter going clear but the color was definitely an even tone of purple throughout indicating that good mixing was happening and there weren't any "dead" spots in that filter either.

    I have to use a hose on jet stream, or a pressure washer to get my filter brushes clean. And I don't believe that the brushes are clean after simply dumping the filter in your system. I've tried violently shaking them underwater and they're still not clean. And before you blame fish load or maintenance routines I have an extremely light load in my pond and I clean my brushes daily.

    So simply provide evidence and not opinion or admit that you're assuming this is the way it is but *gasp* you MIGHT be wrong...

    Grant
    The thing is, Grant, he's right. I've seen it done in the filter of this English guy who owns one. He had not done the purge for a few days, and believe me, those brushes were cruddy. One purge with the aid of the standpipe
    And those brushes could have been used to stir your evening cocktail.
    Never seen anything like it. A hurricane sweeping everything away?
    Wow. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you. I SAW IT.
    It's incredible.

  2. #112
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    Good Morning Suzy. So this is then an interesting point--- a flush cleans the 'crude' off the brushes ( to the human eye). I think the devil will be in the details of that observation. As you arr relatively new to the hobby and currently doing " on the job training" as you are accumulating your perspective in real time, I'd like to tell you that many of us have used a down draft of water to 'pull off' the gross mass of organics from the brushes.
    But as time showed us with the use of brushes and the use of teh answer unit etc, is that as masses of bacteria establish themselves and organics 'melt' into the inner sections of brushes and on screens, it becomes progressively difficult to remove the deposits. This is why power washes, soaking with hydrogen peroxide and other more drastic techniques are used commonly in these applications.
    At the heart of this issue is the rapid proliferation of bacteria biofilm ( a sticky polymer structure that bacteria build and live in. Not unliked the slimly material in your skin traps and drain- or even on one's teeth if not brushed twice a day! ). It is inevitable, and my personal feelings regarding Waddy aside, I doubt that this law of nature is suspended by a different configured bin with hanging brushes. JR

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Nancy . . .

    Thanks for putting up the pix of the raceway Frank build for Michael Chua's pond; hope all the newbies notice that it's much truer to the Japanese concept of ERIC (Endless River in Concrete) than Waddy's LRIP (Limited River in Plastic) is. Didn't see any brushes, though? LOL

    Larry . . .

    Seems Waddy has an endless supply of first time posters to come on Bito and ask a question so we can be bombarded by yet another cheap, tawdry trades promotion and circus act -- all the while avoiding payment of advert fees to Brian. Cheesy bit, that.

    JR . . .

    Thanks for the facts on J-mat. At least there was something worthwhile to take away from this thread.
    Don, you're most welcome. And as I said in a few of these posts, my personal distain for Waddy and his sales methods aside, I am a stickler for the science facts here ( it's kinda a hobby for me! ) . I also know what I know! And that is from koi history and how it is being twisted for marketing pruposes. That's gets my "irish" up and opens me up to Waddy's racism.
    I can keep out of trouble however by focusing on the fundamental 'misunderstandings' that the 'legend' ( the self promotion and the bit about about " MY NAME IS LEGEND!" still cracks me up) has regarding how nitrification actually works. So I'll keep on trying to show how these things actually work and why. And let me state here and now, this new set of binds The LEGEND is hawking will work fine, as do most open chamber systems using physical barriers to gather organic waste and media like the tried and true Jmat in additional sections to remove inorganic ammonia.
    The reason I favor the concrete build units like Frank builds is because you are not limited by a fixed design and can customize and fabricate exact dimensions and shapes to the situation. I also like that you can move into even overkill if you like regarding size, depth, number of mats etc. If I get a minute I'll show you my construction of my horizontal chambers and the building I put over it. Best, JR

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Good Morning Suzy. So this is then an interesting point--- a flush cleans the 'crude' off the brushes ( to the human eye). I think the devil will be in the details of that observation. As you arr relatively new to the hobby and currently doing " on the job training" as you are accumulating your perspective in real time, I'd like to tell you that many of us have used a down draft of water to 'pull off' the gross mass of organics from the brushes.
    But as time showed us with the use of brushes and the use of teh answer unit etc, is that as masses of bacteria establish themselves and organics 'melt' into the inner sections of brushes and on screens, it becomes progressively difficult to remove the deposits. This is why power washes, soaking with hydrogen peroxide and other more drastic techniques are used commonly in these applications.
    At the heart of this issue is the rapid proliferation of bacteria biofilm ( a sticky polymer structure that bacteria build and live in. Not unliked the slimly material in your skin traps and drain- or even on one's teeth if not brushed twice a day! ). It is inevitable, and my personal feelings regarding Waddy aside, I doubt that this law of nature is suspended by a different configured bin with hanging brushes. JR
    Most people who brush their teeth regularly have little or no dental problems
    unless their teeth are predisposed to such, in which case the problems will arise in spite of careful hygiene.I do not think that the comparison is a valid one!

    You as such are certainly in your good right to doubt what you have not seen. Maybe the use of bleach would reassure you?

    No response from my Q and A post? I'm disappointed, having hoped that you would set us all straight on these matters.

    Have a fine day.

  5. #115
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    Good Morning Suzy. Well sarcasm aside, teeth do indeed build bacteria on the them ( source of infection and bad breath). When you get your teeth professionally cleaned and polished the teeth feel 'clean and non-slippery' for a matter of hours. And gum infections are always bacteria driven. This, by the way, is why dental products /pastes that contain orabase and a gram negative killing bacteria ingredient ( antibiotic like gentacin) are so useful with aeromonas ulcer treatment.
    Back to teeth and brushing-- the idea as I understand it is to dislodge food bits and to clear the 'film' off teeth. That film is digestive enzyme and bacteria film-- and that bacteria can reproduce every twenty minutes to 2 hours.
    This slime coating by the way, occupies all your plumbing indoors as well as hard to believe areas such as moving boat propellors! It is dedicated to the idea of 'stay power'!
    The slime itself is made by the bacteria when they finally decide to set up shop on a surface. It is called a matrix by environmental microbiologists and many studies have been done on this material as it has so many practical applications.

    As for sterilizing, we did that for years on the Answer unit screens. And I have power wasted my brushes for at least fifteen years before selling them and replacing them with a design of my own ( baffle system with a sump). But sterilization only works for a short time as we found out when using industrial grade hydrogen peroxide on the micro screens of answer units.
    The real issue with brushes is seasonal temperature change and its effect on bacteria' processing' of organic waste trapping within the brushes. THE LEGEND 'used' to talk about these brushes as being a source of aeromonas by the way. I think I can find that in writing within the pages of NI? I'll have to look. But really it is not about "I AM LEGEND" as we are discussing the science here and not the hype.
    JR

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan B View Post
    My question was answered on the second post. You wackos pulled the "Wad" out of the cyber woodwork. What an endless thread of crap. Needless to say this will be my first and last thread in wacko-town. My interest is to learn more about raising my koi fish. Your interest should include sharing knowledge with people, like myself, who are new to the hobby. I guess I'll find my information somewhere else. Blow it out your ass koi-cop. See you later wackos.

    My name is Dan B
    Well Dan, what can I say.

    You wanted to know how the cartridges were assembled, I told you that Peter gave a clear and concise explanation on his website that took all the guesswork out of it, and never said a word about Peter or eric or anything else except in response to his commando tactics directed at me.

    I never made fun of you for being interested in the subject. I've never made fun of Suzy for being interested in the subject. But I'm one of the wacko's no doubt.

    If you care to go back and re-read the chronology of this thread you'll notice that Peter came in with his hackles up because I dared to suggest that these type filters were being successfully used by others elsewhere.

    Note that I've never said that these filters won't work, nor has Don, or Nancy, or Grant, or JR. On the contrary, we've pointed out that they WILL work because there is a decades long track record of success for this type of filter.

    I have taken his "math" to task as he is being far more "creative" in his use of numbers than logic allows. Whenever he is asked a simple technical question by anyone he immediately evades the question with mockery with an apparent aim to dodge and deflect because he cannot answer the question.

    Here is the part you don't "get" about all of this.

    None of us enjoy this. The name "Peter Waddington" was legend. His name was synonymous with "Nishikigoi" and "Koi Kichi", and both he and his books were sought after. He was the single most highly sought out and respected "Koi Person" in the western world, period. Even those of us who have never met him looked up to him with admiration.

    And now we are watching him publicly destroy himself with fits of rage, irrational claims, wild tirades against imaginary foes, and attacks against people who never wished him any ill whatsoever.

    If you think we're enjoying this you are mistaken.
    For me it is the saddest thing I've witnessed since I began this hobby.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Good Morning Suzy. Well sarcasm aside, teeth do indeed build bacteria on the them ( source of infection and bad breath). When you get your teeth professionally cleaned and polished the teeth feel 'clean and non-slippery' for a matter of hours. And gum infections are always bacteria driven. This, by the way, is why dental products /pastes that contain orabase and a gram negative killing bacteria ingredient ( antibiotic like gentacin) are so useful with aeromonas ulcer treatment.
    Back to teeth and brushing-- the idea as I understand it is to dislodge food bits and to clear the 'film' off teeth. That film is digestive enzyme and bacteria film-- and that bacteria can reproduce every twenty minutes to 2 hours.
    This slime coating by the way, occupies all your plumbing indoors as well as hard to believe areas such as moving boat propellors! It is dedicated to the idea of 'stay power'!
    The slime itself is made by the bacteria when they finally decide to set up shop on a surface. It is called a matrix by environmental microbiologists and many studies have been done on this material as it has so many practical applications.

    As for sterilizing, we did that for years on the Answer unit screens. And I have power wasted my brushes for at least fifteen years before selling them and replacing them with a design of my own ( baffle system with a sump). But sterilization only works for a short time as we found out when using industrial grade hydrogen peroxide on the micro screens of answer units.
    The real issue with brushes is seasonal temperature change and its effect on bacteria' processing' of organic waste trapping within the brushes. THE LEGEND 'used' to talk about these brushes as being a source of aeromonas by the way. I think I can find that in writing within the pages of NI? I'll have to look. But really it is not about "I AM LEGEND" as we are discussing the science here and not the hype.
    JR
    Still no response to my Q and A post?
    Until then, let's all keep teeth and mouths (including the words emerging
    from these last) as pristine and pure as possible.

    I don't want to hear about "hype" or "legends."
    I would LOVE to hear about totally bacteria-free filter systems!

  8. #118
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    I'm sorry Suzy, which A & Q are you referring to? I'll be glad to help if I can? JR

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    Well Dan, what can I say.

    You wanted to know how the cartridges were assembled, I told you that Peter gave a clear and concise explanation on his website that took all the guesswork out of it, and never said a word about Peter or eric or anything else except in response to his commando tactics directed at me.

    I never made fun of you for being interested in the subject. I've never made fun of Suzy for being interested in the subject. But I'm one of the wacko's no doubt.

    If you care to go back and re-read the chronology of this thread you'll notice that Peter came in with his hackles up because I dared to suggest that these type filters were being successfully used by others elsewhere.

    Note that I've never said that these filters won't work, nor has Don, or Nancy, or Grant, or JR. On the contrary, we've pointed out that they WILL work because there is a decades long track record of success for this type of filter.

    I have taken his "math" to task as he is being far more "creative" in his use of numbers than logic allows. Whenever he is asked a simple technical question by anyone he immediately evades the question with mockery with an apparent aim to dodge and deflect because he cannot answer the question.

    Here is the part you don't "get" about all of this.

    None of us enjoy this. The name "Peter Waddington" was legend. His name was synonymous with "Nishikigoi" and "Koi Kichi", and both he and his books were sought after. He was the single most highly sought out and respected "Koi Person" in the western world, period. Even those of us who have never met him looked up to him with admiration.

    And now we are watching him publicly destroy himself with fits of rage, irrational claims, wild tirades against imaginary foes, and attacks against people who never wished him any ill whatsoever.

    If you think we're enjoying this you are mistaken.
    For me it is the saddest thing I've witnessed since I began this hobby.
    Imaginary foes? Larry, please. Some here are IMMENSELY enjoying the occasion to slander and insult PW on this forum.I am so happy to know that your name does not figure among these.

    Don't worry about PW. He is not of the sort that can be "destroyed" by jealousy. I see nothing "sad" about it all, apart from the fact that those who can't stand his success are belittling themselves daily here through envy and
    ill-will. And from the "I know it all" syndrome.

    Professionals have something to sell. PW has a personal website for this.
    He does NOT need a thread on KB to do so. He has NEVER asked for one to
    be opened. He has also tried to give much free info to any interested in such.

    I am an amateur in keeping Koi, and a much less qualified one than most, including you. The advice of a professional is precious stuff, not to be taken lightly. A lifetime of experience and passion for one thing brings knowledge
    that no amateur can hope to equal. Ever.

    I know what is happening on this thread, Larry...and I hate knowing it.

  10. #120
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    Suzy said;

    I'd like to ask a few questions to all. I will propose my answers, while inviting all to do the same.

    1) Q-Who started these threads about PW's filtration system?

    A-Wasn't PW- we all know who it was.

    ...Actually they've been started by You out of your zeal for him and his system, Luke out of his zeal to stir up shit at every opportunity, and in this case DanB out of simple curiosity regarding the cartridge assembly.


    2) Q- Why weren't these threads halted at the very beginning of them by
    those who now protest against "free advertising"?

    A- Because these same people wanted to trash PW on a public forum and
    this seemed to them a good way to go about it.

    ...None of us are Moderators and as such we have no power to shut down a thread other than to ignore them. If we ignore them and simply allow misinformation to be promulgated we are derelict in our personal duty to see good information set forth and bad information corrected.

    3) Q- Who has an ax to grind with PW and is too cowardly to grind it in
    another, more dignified fashion?

    A- That's a really hard one! I plead the 5th Amendment...

    ...Please point out to us all of the people who have a personal axe to grind with Peter. You can count all of the respondents to these threads who've ever even met the man on one or two fingers...

    4) Q- Why are people who have seen PW's filter working on established
    ponds and who have been "blown away" by it's performance and the
    testimonies of those who have been using them, obliged to hear on
    this forum that we are cretins?

    A- Because this forum doesn't appreciate any comments from those who
    may have opinions other than those commonly accepted here.

    ...And now we're back to the "free advertising testimonials" issue. We've all seen filters work well. Nothing new about that. What we are intolerant of is 2nd hand advertising for a non-paying self promoter or his acolytes.

    5) Q- Is hearing info from a professional, when one is an amateur, a great
    occasion to learn and progress or simply a denial that maybe a guy
    who's done this his whole life might know a little more than you do?

    A- Wow, that's a tough one.

    ...So you are saying that if "this" professional says something works and that "all other" professionals are charlatans and ne'er do-wells we are to bow to the "one" and dismiss the others? Are we to dismiss our own shared experiences as irrelevant and accept the "new" definition of "new" and toss all that we have learned firsthand out the window?

    6) Q- Is this a forum about Koi keeping, or a place on which one vents
    hatred and venom?

    A- Thank God for the genuine people on here who want to exchange ideas
    glean knowledge and share their own with others!
    Otherwise my answer would be.....
    Yessireebob.[/QUOTE]

    ...If you want to read the hatred and venom please re-read Waddy's posts attacking others with much venom and read those of others like myself, Grant, Nancy, etc... Peter was more than happy to take credit for the filter chamber Frank built as "ERIC" until he realized it wasn't intended that way. Then he went on the attack, calling it ineffective and filled with dead spaces.

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